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#1 |
Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: corinth, ms / los angeles
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![]() just saving this till i can work on it tommorrow in case my computer crashes.
please no comments till i finish Fuel System Upgrades for help w/ abbreviations go hereInjectors ![]() Stock injectors 357= the bosch 357 injectors that came stock in the 84-89 b230ft motor 29lb/hr (300cc/min) @ 3bar 804= the bosch 804 injectors that came stock in the 90+ b230ft rated 30lb/hr(310cc/min) @ 3 bar Upgrades Info by part number for injectors Info for import injectors Info for ford injectors cfi's -v6 found in ford v6 cfi carspart# 0 280 150 402. 38.8lb/hr(407cc/min) @ 3 bar, 43.4lb/hr (456cc/min) @4 bar. -These injectors are more common and easier to find. Though the only down side is they are CFI design so they can't not use the OEM injector clips. Though this fit and work in our setups perfect. They are as big as the brown tops but because of the CFI design the injector spray is a little finer of a mist and a wider spray pattern. ![]() -To make these fit in a volvo manifold all you need is 2 orings on the bottom and 1 spacer and one oring on the top. w/ this setup i have NEVER had a CFI injector leak from not sealing over time... only leak beacuse i didn't make sure the oring sat/sealed right. -The lower right injector shows what needs to be done to make fit in a volvo rail/manifold. first you remove the plastic stock CFI cap and then clean the body of the injector(or u can leave it be) and then u just put the two orings on the bottom and then one spacer and oring on the top. ![]() -v8 ford/bosch injector found on 80-85 ford 5.0 CFI motors(look like TBI). part # 280 150 403 59lb/hr 620cc/min (3bar) these injectors are good until about 430 hp browntops 87-88 ford turbo coupes(t-birds) and mercury cougar xr7, 84-86 mustang svo, 87-89 merkur xr4ti's. Ford part # on the side is E5ZE 38lb/hr. 400cc/min (3 bar) 42lb/hr 450cc/min (4 bar) lh 2.2 install starian/ conquest the mitsu starion/conquest motors have 80lb/hr injectors ![]() 800cc primary and like a 1200 cc secondary these are un-tested Install notes for upgraded injectors lh 2.4, adjusts itself lh 2.2, resistor mods needed to amm, see lh install in browntops Non-turbo models, 4 x 10ohm resistors are required in line from the ecu. Cleaning Cruzin Performance $11 per injector to be cleaned and flowed RC Engineering, CA $25 per injector to be cleaned and flowed. prob the best shop with the fastest turn around. home ultrasonic cleaning Accurate Technical Services in MI $11 per injector to be cleaned and flowed. Marren Motorsports in CT $25 per injector to be cleaned and flowed. FPR stock (lh)n/a 2.5 bar turbo 3 bar Dodge 4bar 4 bar FPR found any of the mid/late 80's turbo dodges w/ the newer style intake manifold (that draw throw but blow through like ours). there is the one style that look just like the OEM one jsut w/ the 1/4 barb on the backand then there is the later model one which has a thread in fitting for the return line. Both injectors for each car are rated/sold as lb/hb @ 55psi(4 baR). bosch part # 280 160 260. mopar # 4306015 437. these bolt right into the volvo rail and will need a 1/4 fuel line to go from the return line on the FPR to the tank. this is a little smaller than the stock return line. this is a 4 bar FPR ... takes fuel pressure up to 55psi. Fuel Pumps -K-jet K jet pumps together flow 120-140 L/h @ 5bar -lh turbo LH jet pumps together flow 120 L/h @ 3bar -Walbro 255lph hp part # gss342 hp also sold under holley brand #'s 12-913, 12-915, 12-916, 12-918, 12-919, 12-921, and 12-922. these just replace the in tank unit, you bypass the front one these will fit in the stock pre-pumo (in tank) location. use the supplied walbro pre pump filter (sock). -mods to fit -minor grinding on the inside of the holder. the ridges plus a bit. -the pipe that exts the tank that it connects to gets shortened 1" -it needs to be wired in through a relay to prevent burning up the wires. just use the stock in-tank and fuel sender power wire as the swiched power source. add a couple fuses. Specs at 13.5v psi, amps, gal/hr, ltr/hr, ..cc/min. ..bhp 35 ..7.5 ....76.5 ..289.59 4826.51 ..765 45 ..8.2 ....74 ....273.82 .4568.63 ..723.3 55 ..9 68...17 .....258.04 4300.75 ...681.7 65 ..10.2 ..62.33 .244.16 4069.41 ...645 75 ..10.7 ..60.5 ...229.02 3817.05 ..605 85 ..11.6 ..50.17 .189.91 3165.1 ....501.7 (bsfc est @ .70) at 16.5v 45 ..11.6 ..91.5 ..346.37 .5772.89 ..915 65 ..14.1 ..80 .....302.84 .5047.33 ..800 85 ..16.2 ..62.33 .235.96 .3932.71 ..623.3 the bypass opens at 85 psi. MSD in-line part # 2225 pros goes in an easier to get to position cons, no bypass valve cost can only supply as mush fuel as the in-tank can provide Voltage booster By increasing the voltage to the pumps, you can also increase the flow. Can be used when changing pump is not desirible or when performance pump capacity has been reached. Availible from MSD Dual Pumps By doubling the pumps, you double the flow. Works best on large in-tank pumps. does require fabrication. dont forget to double up on the wiring too! Fuel Rail You can buy fuel rail blanks at www.atpturbo.comEquations Maximum Horsepower with a Given Injector Size (Flow Rate * No. of Injectors * 0.8) / (BSFC) = HP Convert cfm to Estimated Injector Size (CFM * 0.44298) / No. of Cylinders = Estimated Injector Size Optimum Injector Size Equation: (BHP * BSFC) / (No. of Injectors * 0.8) = Injector Size (Flow Rate) Conversions: 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi, 1 atmosphere = 101.3 kPa ,1 atmosphere = 1.013 BAR, 1 BAR = 14.51 psi Volume Conversions: [lbs/hour = Cubic centimetres (cc) per minute / 10.2] ; [cc per minute = lbs/hour x 10.2] cc per minute = HP x 5 , HP (per injector) = cc per minute / 5 , HP = lbs per hour x 2.04 other reading anthony hydework in progress, part of a larger easy to find topics , will add info as needed thanks to mike (thestartof) where most of this info came from, along w/ everyone else
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my cars (click me) I'm not here, Please leave a message after the tone........(or email me). Last edited by n xntrx volvo; 12-06-2004 at 06:38 AM.. |
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#2 |
Board Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
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![]() Good work there n xntrx. It's definately nice to have all that info in the one place (and nice that you include cc/min measurements because I can't process lb/hr measurements in my head.
![]() I'm just wondering if anybody uses D Jet injectors as I'm sure they flow well (440cc or something???), in fact I'm sure I've read somewhere that they flow the same or even are the same as the modern day Bosch Motorsport injectors. Just wondering if anyone has any more info on them??? 142T5 |
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#3 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
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![]() <-thelostartof on a friends comp
lol dude that's right out of my thread and my pics .... let me try to get some new ones but yea those are mine haha i'll get some info on thise big CFI's posted to when i get back home mike |
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#4 |
Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: corinth, ms / los angeles
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![]() just consol all of them, along w/ other fuel issues. wont work on till tommorrow, work on the abbrev today.
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#5 |
It's a girl!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vinemount, Ontario CANADA
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![]() The Dodge 4bar FPR only fits on the 700 style fuel rail, not the 240 style, though I'm not sure about newer 240s. Great thread!
John
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'83 242 '95 T5R '98 S70 |
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#6 | ||
Mens Classic Fit Polo
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong #28604
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![]() I made the dodge 4bar fpr fit on the old style (shepards crook) 240 fuel rail.
I cut the Nut that the stock FPR normally tightens into off of the stock fuel rail and I used some (3/8" ?) fuel hose to bridge the gap between the rail and the FPR. I'm running the Dodge 4bar with the greentop(357) injectors with a resistor pack on NA lh2.0 Yes it is rich as a railroad tycoon at idle but my A/F ratio gauge says I start running stoich about the time I hit 15psi. I also had my intank pump start to die on me so I replaced it with a new intank pump from a 740 turbo(hint, this was way cheaper than the new pump that autozone lists for the 240) I also swapped in a used inline pump off of a 740 turbo. The 740 inline pump has different mounting brackets that hold it to the mounting cage than the 240 inline pump, a few zipties can fix this. Peace, Josh
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Quote:
Last edited by jpbturbo; 10-07-2004 at 11:37 AM.. |
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#7 | |
It's a girl!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vinemount, Ontario CANADA
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![]() Quote:
John |
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#8 |
Board Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Santa Cruz Ca
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![]() thank you!
One question... Are the Ford CFI injectors high or low impedence? and is there any way to tell by looking at them or the part # ? Thanks, Noah |
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#9 |
unbalanced chemical
![]() Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
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![]() low impedence ... you mean i never told ya that ...
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#10 |
Board Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calgary, Ab
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![]() I have found discrepancies to the CFI injector flow rates.
The V6 injectors, Bosch pn 0-280-150-402, is said to flow 338 cc/min (32.2 #/hr) at 3.0 bar, but the E3VE lists at 389 cc/min (37 #/hr) at 2.55 bar. The injectors I pulled this weekend from Ford V6 cars have both part numbers listed on them. The V8 injectors (non-HO), Bosch pn 0-280-150-400, are said to flow 437 cc/min (41.6 #/hr) at 3.0 bar, but the E0SE lists at 485 cc/min (46.1 #/hr) at 2.30 bar. Likewise to the 3.8, the 5.0 injectors I pulled this weekend have both numbers on them. The 403s you listed above are from a 5.0 HO. They flow 503/47.9 at 3.0 bar one one list, and 551/52.4 at 2.2 bar on another list I've seen both numbers on the same list (Stan Weiss') and I've seen each number on separate lists, so which numbers would you go with? They're pretty big differences, especially once you correct for the difference in rated pressure. Has anyone tested CFI injectors and verified a particular flow rate? I'd also like to share a link - it's probably been posted here before, but I think it's relevant to this thread. http://www.supras.com/~riemer/sonict...rs/RCtech.html It's good reading and puts to rest a bunch of misconceptions. |
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#11 |
unbalanced chemical
![]() Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
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![]() well for sure the 403's flow 59lb/hr @ 3bar(as tested by philip b i think)
and all mid 80's 5.0's were HO's weither they said it or not(had a lot of ford friends who kept telling me this) |
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#12 |
Board Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calgary, Ab
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![]() If HOs and non-HOs are the same, how come I just pulled -400 injectors from a pair of V8s this weekend? You'd think that if all 5.0s were HOs, they'd all need the -403 injectors, wouldn't you?
Maybe your Ford friends were talking about all Mustang motors being HOs? Otherwise, I think they're telling a joke. |
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Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: corinth, ms / los angeles
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Last edited by n xntrx volvo; 12-05-2004 at 10:26 PM.. |
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#14 |
Board Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calgary, Ab
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![]() Alright, there's yet another list, one that I haven't seen yet. Here's mine:
On this one you can look up the Bosch numbers and get one flow/pressure rating, and you can look up the Ford numbers and get something completely different: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm Here you will find numbers that back up the Bosch numbers from the first table: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UN6PQal...ow%20rates.pdf And here you will find numbers that back up the Ford numbers from the first table: http://f2.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UN6PQSi.../injector2.pdf |
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#15 |
Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: corinth, ms / los angeles
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![]() added that first link, its excelent!
fyi if you notice from the fuel pump charts that fuel pimp capacity goes down as pressure is raised. |
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#16 | |
Board addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oregon
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![]() Awesome post!
Thanks for all the great information, especially in one post! Time to make this either a sticky in this forum, or into the articles section where all can easily find it. This is the kind of base we need! Getting more in depth information like this on other upgrades like ignition, etc and into the articles/information forum would be awesome and very useful!
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Officer, Oregon Volvo Tuners 82 242Ti 84.5 245Ti Parts car, Need something!? ![]() In Memory of Matthew Dionne (3/23/83 to 5/12/03) Quote:
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#17 |
Having m46 nightmares
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Quebec, Canada
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![]() Another awesome thread by n xntrx
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#18 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Meh
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
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![]() my CFI flowtesting from Cruzin Perf:
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