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Old 07-22-2019, 03:19 PM   #76
dbarton
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Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon View Post
Few things:

Those belts will require machining on the pulleys. It would be easier to just move the damn alternator to the other side.

If you really want to run that, which will actually have less surface area than the stock arrangement, go buy a pulley for that style of belt and machine your stock pulleys to match.

If you upgrade to the BMW electric power steering pump, youll need to upgrade to a 500 amp alternator.

Alternatively:

Just get a proper sized fan, one of these https://derale.com/product-footer/el...n-probe-detail and a normal 100-140 amp alternator and move on with life
I'm not considering such extremely different belts. Just bringing along the discussion. I guess you're a discussion killer.

So, discussion killer, I'd like to hear what YOU think a proper sized fan is. 15 inch 940? And why you think my fan is not proper. Remember that my fan is PWM controllered, so it runs as low as 20%.

The amp rating on that Derale controller makes me laugh (below). My current PWM controller is 125 amps.

So for example, my 240 mile drive yesterday from Austin to North TX in 100 deg mid-day heat included a nightmare 2 hour freeway closure. So during that 2 hour crawl my external temp reading went from 102 deg to 138 deg. My oil temp went from 200 to 250. Glad I had AC and I'm glad I DIDN'T have a 940 fan, or I guarantee AC would have to go OFF and I seriously doubt I could have kept the car from overheating without turning the heat on or simply getting off the road and shutting things off.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:18 PM   #77
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Strange Dave. I've got the 940 fan, no issues running the AC in 110* ambient in traffic, other than the AC doesn't work as well (converted system BS). Never had an issue with overheating and I'm only running the fan on low. Only overheating I had was a 2 mile long grade plus several high throttle pulls while tuning, with the AC on due to 102* ambients. Turned the AC off, heat on, fan bumped to high and it was down to normal in about 45 seconds.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:35 PM   #78
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you should just crush the car man
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:50 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
Strange Dave. I've got the 940 fan, no issues running the AC in 110* ambient in traffic, other than the AC doesn't work as well (converted system BS). Never had an issue with overheating and I'm only running the fan on low. Only overheating I had was a 2 mile long grade plus several high throttle pulls while tuning, with the AC on due to 102* ambients. Turned the AC off, heat on, fan bumped to high and it was down to normal in about 45 seconds.
Guess I should mention that I have my fan set to run at 50% when the AC is on, which is 1000 fan rpm. Then of course if the controller sees coolant temp increasing, it will slowly increase speed to compensate. 100% would be 2000 rpm.

So my pont is that I may not need the extra fan capacity. But I like having it just in case it comes in handy. Better than needing it and wishing you had more fan.
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Last edited by dbarton; 07-25-2019 at 03:16 PM..
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:59 PM   #80
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Absolutely! I have mine setup on a switch in the radiator for low speed but I also have a manual switch on the dash. Factory fog light switch, repurposed with an 'Off' position for full auto operation, and a manual low and high option as well. Always use the manual setting at the track or when flogging, auto during 95% of my driving.
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:14 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon View Post
Just get a proper sized fan, one of these https://derale.com/product-footer/el...n-probe-detail and a normal 100-140 amp alternator and move on with life
And actually I do have one one these. Bought it two years ago from Summit, BRAND NEW, never used it. If anyone needs one, I'd be interested in passing it on to someone with a smaller fan. Paid $160.

PM me. Gone now.

Last edited by dbarton; 07-25-2019 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:10 AM   #82
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I modified the bracket to move the idler up a bit and increased the belt-wrap to over 180 degrees. Still putting miles on it to see if anything breaks. Car is down for a few days now cause I had a condenser fan fail and I'm waiting for a new one.

I thought I would try a belt slip test using socket wrenches on the crank pulley bolt and alternator pulley nut. Doing that before with a stock setup showed tons of alternator pulley slip. Now I find that the alternator pulley is actually gripping slightly better than the crank pulley. Appears to be a pretty significant improvement.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:03 PM   #83
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That looks good
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:37 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarton View Post
So, discussion killer, I'd like to hear what YOU think a proper sized fan is. 15 inch 940? And why you think my fan is not proper. Remember that my fan is PWM controllered, so it runs as low as 20%.

The amp rating on that Derale controller makes me laugh (below). My current PWM controller is 125 amps.

So for example, my 240 mile drive yesterday from Austin to North TX in 100 deg mid-day heat included a nightmare 2 hour freeway closure. So during that 2 hour crawl my external temp reading went from 102 deg to 138 deg. My oil temp went from 200 to 250. Glad I had AC and I'm glad I DIDN'T have a 940 fan, or I guarantee AC would have to go OFF and I seriously doubt I could have kept the car from overheating without turning the heat on or simply getting off the road and shutting things off.
Dave
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I too have lived in extreme climates with a hot B2xx and AC. I never needed anything more than a reasonably sized fan (spal 12", volvo 940) in a proper shroud. Oil cooler, trans cooler on the auto car, big intercooler and anything from an aluminum aftermarket radiator, to a brass recore, to a new aluminum with plastic endtanks radiator. I never got hot. The AC never stopped working.


http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=325313

You consider this rube goldberg device to be PWM?
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:19 PM   #85
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I too have lived in extreme climates with a hot B2xx and AC. I never needed anything more than a reasonably sized fan (spal 12", volvo 940) in a proper shroud. Oil cooler, trans cooler on the auto car, big intercooler and anything from an aluminum aftermarket radiator, to a brass recore, to a new aluminum with plastic endtanks radiator. I never got hot. The AC never stopped ?
Was this a 240 with a B21FT?
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:23 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon;5980924
[url
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=325313[/url]

You consider this rube goldberg device to be PWM?
You should know better.
THIS is PWM: https://www.240turbo.com/ElectricCoo...ml#autocoolguy
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:38 PM   #87
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Thats a nice controller. I thought you were still using that cascading monstrosity.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:05 PM   #88
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Dual V-Belt
Those are known in the HVAC industry as 'PowerBand' belts. That was the Gates name for them when they came out ~20 years ago. They are intended for use on a matched sheave in belt driven applications. My experience with them is in HVAC pumps and fans up to 250 motor HP. They come in widths of up to ~12 ribs or so. Great for running cooling tower fans and last a lot longer than individual belts.

They wouldn't be appropriate in this application as our belts sit down deep in the sheaves. To run a PowerBand belt you have to have the correct A or B series sheave. For us the belt would just ride on the peak of the pully between the two grooves and be quickly cut in half resulting in two belts.

Dave, have you though about adding a spring tensioner to the idler? In that case you would be able to run a fixed alternator mount and do away with the adjuster entirely.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:40 AM   #89
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Thats a nice controller. I thought you were still using that cascading monstrosity.
Yes, the autocoolguy is the best thing I've found so far.

I made the cascading monstrosity more out of frustration because every available PWM unit I tried eventually failed after 1 or 2 years, usually far from home, in traffic or something. I didn't find the autocoolguy until after building the monstrosity.

The one I bought is 125 amps and it's what they recommended for a Mark VIII fan. They offer bigger ones than that for RVs or multiple fans. One cool feature I really like is the trimpot to adjust the AC fan speed, currently set at 50%.

If I start the car cold and let it idle, it eventually come on in about 10 minutes at a very slow speed. You don't hear it come on usually, since it's slow and quiet until the sensor says it needs more.

The monstrosity did the same tricks mostly, except it wasn't as smooth or as quiet and since it regulated between 3 different speeds, it wasn't as efficient.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:44 AM   #90
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Dave, have you though about adding a spring tensioner to the idler? In that case you would be able to run a fixed alternator mount and do away with the adjuster entirely.
No, haven't considered it. I'm not well versed in serpentines or tensioners, so for me it would probably be like finding a jelly bean in a pile of pea gravel in the dark.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:24 AM   #91
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Excellent work Dave, very interesting.
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