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Old 07-23-2019, 01:20 AM   #1
jmc0369
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Default Front sump whiteblock

I'm investigating the general feasibility of dropping a Volvo five-pot into some vintage Japanese iron, specifically Kali pre=smog (<76), RWD Toyota or Datsun. As a side note I am hopeful that the bill crawling through the House will be passed and the pre-smog date will move to pre-'83. I like 2gen and even if later than '82 3rd gen Celicas. Interestingly they are boxy blobs that are generally unappreciated and a natural draw for a Volvo lover.

I'd love to introduce the noise of the gods to the nipponese car lover crowd. From what I gather into rack and pinion swaps to classic Celicas, a front sump motor is needed. Is there an option available to us to make a front sump oil sump solution for the white block? Turning the oil pan around? Dry sump? Yes, this is spitballing. But maybe a few others would be willing to walk down the dreaming isle for a few strides with me. This is beyond my current skillset to fabricate, but as a forever car, I'd certainly budget to get assistance in the necessary fabrication process.

I do like RA65's but that's well into a smog window for Kalifornians that is very difficult to workaround. thanks in advance in the conversation.
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Old 07-23-2019, 01:39 AM   #2
Alex Buchka
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The only rear wheel drive appropriate offering from the factory is the categorically-rear sump 960 pan. The oil pump inlet is at the front of the engine so making a front sump version should be fairly straightforward in that regard. Path of least resistance would probably be chopping the sump off a 960 pan and moving it to the front. The oil filter mounts to the pan at the very front so there would have to be some trickery to make that work. Nothing about it is explicitly hard, it's just a lot of work.

Keeping it flat after judicious welding is likely the biggest headache. I've done this kind of surgery to other cast oil pans and they generally become banana shaped pretty quickly without good fixturing.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:25 PM   #3
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That was a lot of helpful info. Lets me know there aren't any outright showstoppers in respect to the oil pan (not that dry sumping could be a workaround otherwise). I appreciate it, Alex.

Some thoughts about dropping a plane jane near-stock NA B5244 into a 1rst or 2nd generation Celica; considering NA 5 cyl 850, S70, S60, and C30 all seem to be rated for mid to high 20 mpg's; a car 800-1200 lbs lighter out to get considerably better mpg and be a massive boost in performance with fully 70 more hp than the factory 20R musters. Proper headers and exhaust ought to be worth a few more and sound fantastic. In a largely unappreciated platform like an RWD Celica, it would likely get a bunch of raised eyebrows. Until they heard it,
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:11 AM   #4
Hank Scorpio
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I kind of think you could just bolt a 960 pan on backwards? Alex is right, the pickup tube starts at the front anyways. Couldn’t tell you off hand if the bolt pattern is centered though.

Edit: looking at it now, you’d also have the oil filter and oil cooler passages to deal with. Not insurmountable but I wonder if just using the FWD pan and cutting and welding a flat plate for the rear 2/3rds might be easiest.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post
I kind of think you could just bolt a 960 pan on backwards? Alex is right, the pickup tube starts at the front anyways. Couldn’t tell you off hand if the bolt pattern is centered though.

Edit: looking at it now, you’d also have the oil filter and oil cooler passages to deal with. Not insurmountable but I wonder if just using the FWD pan and cutting and welding a flat plate for the rear 2/3rds might be easiest.
I could see where cutting up the existing pan and possibly adding volume to the front section plus the rear pan mods might be the easiest solution. All that I’d have to have farmed out, but I think the end product could be special. At least to me, because I want this noise in my life.

https://youtu.be/gOhpmKWHoT8
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post
I kind of think you could just bolt a 960 pan on backwards? Alex is right, the pickup tube starts at the front anyways. Couldn’t tell you off hand if the bolt pattern is centered though.

Edit: looking at it now, you’d also have the oil filter and oil cooler passages to deal with. Not insurmountable but I wonder if just using the FWD pan and cutting and welding a flat plate for the rear 2/3rds might be easiest.
Can’t rotate or flip the white block oil pan without major modifications, the passages in the block and oil pan for the oil pump and filter need to line up with the openings on the block. The photos below shows the pan and block from an RN (99+) turbo engine with the oil cooler integrated onto the back of the oil pan. I’m pretty sure the NA engines don’t have an oil cooler which simplified things a bit. You can see the openings on for the oil pump at the far edge of the oil pan and the near edge of the block



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Last edited by andyb5; 08-03-2019 at 11:07 AM.. Reason: fixed photo embedding
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyb5 View Post
The photos below shows the pan and block from an RN (99+) turbo engine with the oil cooler integrated onto the back of the oil pan. I’m pretty sure the NA engines don’t have an oil cooler which simplified things a bit.
All whiteblocks from -99 and up have a heat exchanger connected to the pan. Older ones don't.
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