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Old 07-10-2020, 10:59 AM   #26
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I'm taking the 240 on a camping trip this weekend. This time I'll be flying solo on unfamiliar roads, so I'm feeling a bit nervous. As a quick effort I sucked the coolant out of the reservoir, and replaced it with straight distilled water. What I removed seemed a bit too opaque to be a true 50/50, so I feel like I might have done something good here.

Like a total goof, I started the car, turned on the AC, put it in gear, and just sat there for a while. I didn't see the temp creep up nearly as quickly as we noticed before. Even if you sat at a long light you would see the temp hit 9:00, but now I think it would take poor service at the McDonalds drive-thru to notice a difference. Long term, I think a coolant flush and t-stat change will do it. For this weekend, I'm going to send it!

Newb question. I know my girlfriend has been filling up with 87. I usually do too, but periodically throw mid-grade in there. IIRC the owners manual suggests 87 to 89 octane fuels. What do you guys fill up with in NA bricks? I feel like I can't hurt anything but my wallet by filling up with 89. I also have no idea if I have any detonation with 87.
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Old 07-10-2020, 11:37 AM   #27
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I'm taking the 240 on a camping trip this weekend.



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Newb question. I know my girlfriend has been filling up with 87. I usually do too, but periodically throw mid-grade in there. IIRC the owners manual suggests 87 to 89 octane fuels. What do you guys fill up with in NA bricks? I feel like I can't hurt anything but my wallet by filling up with 89. I also have no idea if I have any detonation with 87.
I've been using 87. I have LH2.4, and I'm guessing yours is either that or 2.2 ...? Either way, I'm pretty sure both use a knock sensor and constantly pushes the spark timing advanced until a tiny amount of knock is detected, and then they back off, and that's one way how the system achieves good mpg as compared to points ignition or electronic ignition without a knock sensor.

Due to this, you should be fine with 87. I don't notice a difference (have tried 87 & 93 in the wagon), but my engineer brain tells me that 87 gives me more low end torque due to faster flame kernel propagation... but I can't tell tbh.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:14 PM   #28
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I've been using 87. I have LH2.4, and I'm guessing yours is either that or 2.2 ...? Either way, I'm pretty sure both use a knock sensor and constantly pushes the spark timing advanced until a tiny amount of knock is detected, and then they back off, and that's one way how the system achieves good mpg as compared to points ignition or electronic ignition without a knock sensor.

Due to this, you should be fine with 87. I don't notice a difference (have tried 87 & 93 in the wagon), but my engineer brain tells me that 87 gives me more low end torque due to faster flame kernel propagation... but I can't tell tbh.
I'm LH2.4 as well. Supposedly '89 was the crossover year, but I've never seen LH2.2 in a an '89. Anyway, interesting! I did not know that was how this system worked. I'm used to GM stuff where everything is predefined, and the knock sensor is only used as a safety.

I have some ideas for enhancing the camping experience with this car, but I have not had the chance to execute any of it. I'll be prepared regardless. I have the normal supplies.
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:03 PM   #29
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Moose made the 450 mile round trip with relative ease.


This was my view for most of the trip to the site. Needless to say, I took a longer but more scenic route home. Welcome to the Midwest.










A lot of the other campers were admiring the wagon. It felt nice. What felt even better was finally letting go of all my so-called "obligations" in terms of cars. I tend to beat myself up over mechanical and cosmetic issues, and I finally feel good about the current condition of everything I own.



...I do still have some minor concerns though.

1.) I have no idea how you all are achieving even a lick more than 23 mpg. It doesn't seem to matter how fast or slow I go I only get 22+/- 1. Can my belts be too tight? I have good tires with good pressure, stock ride height, and good center support. I'm starting to wonder how I can find any significant losses. Turning the AC off and changing the fuel type doesn't seem to matter at all.

2.) The cruise control kind of only works when it feels like. It also looses speed, but it loses it much faster the higher the speed is set. Once it loses speed, it never tries to pull it back up unless a long downhill stretch allows more speed with the same amount of throttle. I'm guessing there's a vacuum leak I need to address.

Overall, the trip was a big success! We experiences some big storms which exposed a weatherproofing issue in my tent. This drove me to sleep in the back of the wagon. With the windows cracked just a hair, no water came in, heat was able to escape, and I slept like a baby. I might just leave the tent at home for as long as I have this car. lol
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:13 PM   #30
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I'm not sure I've ever seen better than 22mpg on my 92 245, and my A/C has never really worked (and thus I never turn it on). 240s with a manual transmission seem to do significantly better, which kind of makes sense given that the automatic in these cars has no lockup.
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:19 PM   #31
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Great stuff, gorgeous photos. 240 camping is the best. I don't even bring a tent any more. You can fit a twin size mattress perfectly in the back of a 240, if you want to go that route. Amazon has some thin (5-6") foam twins.

For the MPG, consider getting your injectors ultrasonically cleaned. LH2.4 can be operating "stoichiometrically" but each cylinder could be off b/c of the injectors, and simply netting the amount of oxygen the O2 sensor wants to see. 28 mpg is my high score, keep in mind. I'd say average pure highway is 24-25 mpg (weight & speed dependent), so you're not that far off.

Here's my Fuelly report. But it's mostly mixed city & highway

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volvo/240/...latinum/897330

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Old 07-13-2020, 12:53 PM   #32
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I'm not sure I've ever seen better than 22mpg on my 92 245, and my A/C has never really worked (and thus I never turn it on). 240s with a manual transmission seem to do significantly better, which kind of makes sense given that the automatic in these cars has no lockup.
I thought about that during my drive. Not having a lock-up converter is actually pretty annoying. However, I'm an odd car guy in the sense that I have no desire to drive a stick. I'd probably convert this car over to a 4l60e before I considered a 5-speed.
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:56 PM   #33
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Great stuff, gorgeous photos. 240 camping is the best. I don't even bring a tent any more. You can fit a twin size mattress perfectly in the back of a 240, if you want to go that route. Amazon has some thin (5-6") foam twins.

For the MPG, consider getting your injectors ultrasonically cleaned. LH2.4 can be operating "stoichiometrically" but each cylinder could be off b/c of the injectors, and simply netting the amount of oxygen the O2 sensor wants to see. 28 mpg is my high score, keep in mind. I'd say average pure highway is 24-25 mpg (weight & speed dependent), so you're not that far off.

Here's my Fuelly report. But it's mostly mixed city & highway

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volvo/240/...latinum/897330
I thought about this as well. I have an ultrasonic cleaner at work. Perhaps I should give that a shot. I'd be a lot more satisfied if I had an injector flow bench to quantify the efforts though. Oh well. Perhaps smoother running and better MPG will show up as more than just placebo.
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Old 07-13-2020, 01:01 PM   #34
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I thought about this as well. I have an ultrasonic cleaner at work. Perhaps I should give that a shot. I'd be a lot more satisfied if I had an injector flow bench to quantify the efforts though. Oh well. Perhaps smoother running and better MPG will show up as more than just placebo.
I've heard about guys taking their fuel rail off the intake manifold (but keeping it all hooked up still) and putting the injectors into 4 little graduated cylinders, securing them, and then having someone crank the engine for intermittent periods of time. After a significant amount of fuel has been sprayed, one would be able to tell if they are flowing evenly.

Doesn't sound like the safest way though, and I'm not necessarily recommending that route.

I had mine flowed at a performance shop, but then one injector randomly got stuck so I ended up just buying a set of GB reman inejctors and keeping the old ones in the trunk as spares.
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Old 07-13-2020, 08:53 PM   #35
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I forgot to take a "before" picture, but I got the cruise control working again.

You'll have to take my word for it when I say that this looks and functions much better. There was an unnecessary reducing union and two improperly sized tees. Getting the proper tees simplified things and possibly helped with my incredibly slow throttle action. One of the lines was the wrong size which created a bad vacuum leak. That was definitely why I was losing speed on the interstate or up any hill.

My interstate test went well. I got the car up to 70, set the cruise, and observed it holding speed going up a hill. I then pressed the + button a few times to see if I could get it up to 80 without touching the pedal. No problems. It does lose a tiny bit of speed going up hills at 80, but I'm willing to chalk that up as a non-cruise issue.

I have noticed since before my weekend trip that the car is not nearly as peppy as it was when I replaced the accessory bushings. I mean it is incredibly disabled. It doesn't hesitate or even seem to run rough which is odd because the loss in power is now very apparent. The reason I didn't really think much about it during the trip was because the issue is only noticeable around town. Accelerating from a red light almost requires pedal to the metal if I don't want the person behind me to get angry.

I don't know about you, but I think it's time to replace the fuel pumps and filter. I've never done this before on a 240, so I'm in need of tips. Is there a certain brand you guys like to use? Is the IPD "upgrade" in tank pump a solid choice? Is there a solid way to test the system? I was just going to remove the filter and try to blow trough it. Then I would try to pump straight from the in tank into a bucket to check for its function.
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Old 07-13-2020, 09:33 PM   #36
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Search for Art's guide on jumping the fuses to test the in tank pump. There's a couple fuses you jump with a paperclip and you'll be able to hear if the pump is coming on.

I can't speak to the IPD pump, I went the OE route. After a bunch of research, it seemed like the OE pump manufacturer was surprisingly AC delco... which is weird? But yeah i just ordered the OE parts from tasca, the hose is NLA, so I found a NOS one, but I hear the gates submergible hose works.
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:15 PM   #37
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Search for Art's guide on jumping the fuses to test the in tank pump. There's a couple fuses you jump with a paperclip and you'll be able to hear if the pump is coming on.

I can't speak to the IPD pump, I went the OE route. After a bunch of research, it seemed like the OE pump manufacturer was surprisingly AC delco... which is weird? But yeah i just ordered the OE parts from tasca, the hose is NLA, so I found a NOS one, but I hear the gates submergible hose works.
You may be thinking Denso. If it was Delco I would be strongly against OE in that case. I'll leave it at that!

Thanks for the advice. I'll check Art's page.
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:29 PM   #38
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You may be thinking Denso. If it was Delco I would be strongly against OE in that case. I'll leave it at that!

Thanks for the advice. I'll check Art's page.
Nope. Delco. The original pump I pulled off had "AC" stamped on it just like the replacement. I'll see if I have a picture

Edit: no picture, but it appears delphi bought AC delco in 1995. Idk, FCP euro sold me the AC delco pump I installed (lifetime warranty!), and it was marked as OE on their website- further research confirmed AC delco was OE for this part. I wouldn't hesitate to use the VDO version or the IPD kit, but I figured hey, this AC delco pump got 230K miles on the odometer, I'll just put in what came out. We'll see

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Old 07-14-2020, 07:07 AM   #39
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Nope. Delco. The original pump I pulled off had "AC" stamped on it just like the replacement. I'll see if I have a picture

Edit: no picture, but it appears delphi bought AC delco in 1995. Idk, FCP euro sold me the AC delco pump I installed (lifetime warranty!), and it was marked as OE on their website- further research confirmed AC delco was OE for this part. I wouldn't hesitate to use the VDO version or the IPD kit, but I figured hey, this AC delco pump got 230K miles on the odometer, I'll just put in what came out. We'll see
Yikes. The original ones definitely did a good job as one would hope and expect. I just wouldn't replace it with the "same" one knowing what I know now. Okay, I'm triggered. It's story time now.

AC Delco has really slipped into the gutter over the last few years. Within the last four years I've installed three junk AC master cylinders. Two were remanned and one was brand new. I ended up ditching them and buying cheaper store brand remans that work fine. I've also had a two junk AC alternators. One, I modified and fixed myself. The other resulted in buying a rebuild kit for the original unit. Honestly, I'm probably going to start rebuilding alternators myself from now on, because it was really easy, super cheap, gave me a higher current output, and worked flawlessly on the first try. Proof that AC Delco is cutting costs in poor places is their oil filters. I noticed that they started adding an "E" at the end of a lot of their part numbers and wasn't sure why. It turns out they discontinued the original filters for my cars. This is really stupid IMO since there are likely still millions of these engines still in use. The replacement filter no longer has a check valve in it, so it takes longer for the oil pressure to rise on startup. We all know what that leads to!

I used to be all about putting the OE equipment in a car whenever I could, but the very brand I'm supposed to trust for my GM cars is failing at a higher rate than most of the RockAuto economy brands I've used in the past. That's just unacceptable to me. I'm not trying to poop all over your choice of parts. You said your new one is Delphi brand anyway, so it may be better. I guess time will tell!
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:57 AM   #40
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According to cleanflametrap Art the Airtex E8778 is a good intank option if you're looking to stay within the OE parameters, I'm probably gonna grab one for my turbo.
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:04 AM   #41
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According to cleanflametrap Art the Airtex E8778 is a good intank option if you're looking to stay within the OE parameters, I'm probably gonna grab one for my turbo.
I should know this since I work for a fuel systems company. I assume that the priming pumps are good for a decent amount of power then? I do plan to keep the car within stock power for a while, but that may change in the distant future. Will most options give me room to grow?
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:27 AM   #42
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I'm not trying to poop all over your choice of parts. You said your new one is Delphi brand anyway, so it may be better. I guess time will tell!
Hah, no worries. FCP has my back with a lifetime warranty if it goes bad, and if it does, lesson learned. I bought the car with the in tank pump broken, and still drove it around everywhere. It wasn't until 9 months after I bought it when I started doing some snooping out of boredom that I discovered it didn't work.

For me, apparently its a non-essential item but probably helps with longevity of the main fuel pump.
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:39 AM   #43
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Hah, no worries. FCP has my back with a lifetime warranty if it goes bad, and if it does, lesson learned. I bought the car with the in tank pump broken, and still drove it around everywhere. It wasn't until 9 months after I bought it when I started doing some snooping out of boredom that I discovered it didn't work.

For me, apparently its a non-essential item but probably helps with longevity of the main fuel pump.
Ahh yeah. FCP will take care of you then.

It's amazing how resilient these cars are when it comes to certain failures. I read Art's article on pumps. I thought that annoying buzz was a heat shield or something! This makes so much more sense. I'll test the in-tank when I get home, but I already have an order for both pumps, a filter, and some other things on the way. I figure that the fuel system should probably be gone through regardless.
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:32 PM   #44
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Well crap.

Misdiagnosed. I can hear the pump running when I jump the fuse. Now I'm stumped about both the ill performance and the buzzing.
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Old 07-15-2020, 06:14 PM   #45
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I take it back AGAIN!

I thought about how this issue comes about after driving a while. I jumped fuses again while it was cold. It worked fine. Then I went for a long drive. When I jumped the fuses again it sometimes would growl, but then it would lock up.

Yep. That pump is bad. Although I was happy to know what the problem was, I was dreading to see what I was up against. My fears were very justified.

All I had to do was poke the little connector on the top for the thing to break off. Also, the tank is completely full. Hopefully I can get this thing apart, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 07-15-2020, 08:09 PM   #46
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I'm not holding my breath.
You better, there's gonna be a whole lotta gas huffin' involved. Open all the doors and do it outside when you have a gentle breeze

I would personally look for a new tank though. That looks nasty
But then again us southerners aren't as accustomed to rust
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:40 AM   #47
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You better, there's gonna be a whole lotta gas huffin' involved. Open all the doors and do it outside when you have a gentle breeze

I would personally look for a new tank though. That looks nasty
But then again us southerners aren't as accustomed to rust
Ha touche

IMO this tank should be good to go as long as the sending unit comes out as designed. The rust is truly only isolated to this area which is much thicker. I shouldn't need to worry about leaks or contamination. What I will do is break the tubes off the top because there's no chance of removing the hoses from those anyway.

By the way, I strayed away from the "upgrade" lift pump and bought a drop-in replacement. I didn't want to deal with modifying the brand new sender other than maybe swapping the float ball. I have enough to worry about as it is.
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Old 07-20-2020, 06:56 PM   #48
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The first miracle happened as soon as I came outside.

I am extremely happy that I didn't have to drop the tank.

Now I have to deal with new sender problems. The feed line is too long.

No worries. A dremel cutoff wheel does a pretty good job. Then I cleaned the rest up with a reaming tool and a mini file.


All set! I transferred the old float ball over as well since I heard the replacements are trash.



Yes, I drilled another hole in the trap door with my step bit. It's easier and the new sender came with a grommet anyway. Then the fun began.

Gross

Another miracle!

This was right where my luck ran dry. The fuel filter copper washers I got were sized terribly incorrectly. There was little to no chance of either side sealing, so I reused the old ones. Well...

That's not going to work either. I ordered some different ones. Hopefully they work a little better.

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Old 07-26-2020, 05:15 PM   #49
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After breaking 3rd gear in the Camaro, I decided it would be easier to just take Friday off of work instead of trying to roll Moose out of the way of the GN and hoping that nobody dings me in the parking lot. Besides, I'm coming down to the final days before Moose is supposed to make the big trip to Michigan, and I still have a decent amount of work to do if I want to get this done to my satisfaction.

Look at this mess! Among it, would you be able to justify sending this fuel pump when it's this close to coming free? I can't. I don't even want to send it with all this nasty dissolved undercoating.


The bolts and nuts holding all the clamps to the brackets were rusted together no hopes of coming loose. Time for persuasion.


Much to my surprise, these brackets are actually in great shape! With a bit of wire wheeling and rust converter these are going to look great. All that nasty undercoating must have actually been doing something before the brake octopus dumped its juices all over the underside of the car.




I did not order a new pump clamp because I could not find any. Luckily, this one will clean up nicely with new hardware.


Eastwood rust converter has to be my my favorite spray can. This stuff has worked wonders on multiple projects.
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:23 PM   #50
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After waiting way too long to get parts, I finally received my incomplete order. The company cancelled those items, but I'm going to be giving them an earful on Monday. I don't see how it takes four days to pack up and send my parts. As usual, I'm going to be cutting things close to my 7/31 deadline.

The parts I'm missing are a new fuel filter clamp and the rubber fuel pump mounts. The clamp is not a huge deal since I can clean up and reuse the old one. The rubber mounts are kinda critical though. If push comes to shove, I can mount the fuel pump bracket with some "custom" isolators and zip ties for the trip, but I'd obviously rather not. I found a seller on Amazon who offered expedited shipping for a reasonable price, so I'm hoping that they show up on the early side of their estimate.

Unfortunately, I was much too hot to think about taking a lot of pictures of today's progress. I managed to extract a the busted bolt from the filter clamp and wire wheel it until it was fairly clean, but I ran out of rust converter. I had to run to Lowe's to get the hardware I needed, anyway but they did not have any of the spray can stuff. They did have naval jelly and Rustoleum though, so I figured I'd try that out. I was impressed with the naval jelly! I hope it holds up. The first pic is showing the results of the first 5 minute treatment. After that, I was able to go back to the wire wheel and knock off what came loose, apply another 10 minute treatment of naval jelly, clean it up again, and give it some paint!






Between the filter and it's clamp is a rubber isolater. The one I removed was super dirty and impregnated with rust. I'm going to try to revive it. I have no idea what I'm doing, nor did I even bother to look anything up. I'm just winging it to see what happens.

First, I gave it a hot and soapy wash. There was a lot of undercoating on it, and I figured the heat would help expand the rubber enough to let go of most of the rust, and bring deep stuff to the surface. I was right! My soapy water turned very nasty. Then I dried the fairly clean rubber off and drenched it in tire shine. I'm not entirely sure what I thought this was going to do except suck the stuff in and make it slippery, but It actually helped make cleaning the little grit even easier. The little rust particles are coming off with my finger nail. I'm sure it will offer a little bit of protection when it held back on to the clamp anyway.



Perfect? Nah. Pretty good for the junk I had sitting around? Yeah. More work than this car deserves? YES. I guess this is just how I cope with waiting too long for parts.



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