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Old 07-26-2020, 06:50 PM   #51
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Very thorough & professional as always. Therapeutic, even. Hope it comes together and performs well come the 31st!
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:08 PM   #52
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Very thorough & professional as always. Therapeutic, even. Hope it comes together and performs well come the 31st!
Thanks. I really wish I was still sharing the same experience. To be honest, my enthusiasm for this car is dwindling fast. You'll see why in just a second!

Remember all that stuff about "thorough and professional"? I'm gonna throw that away for a second. This car needs to get me to work while I wait for those stupid rubber mounts.

A little cardboard...


Some zipties...


And there you have it!


I then went for a little test drive. It didn't go well. It ran as crappy as it always. When I got home and parked it in the driveway, I noticed that the main pump was growling just idling. I did the Fuse 4 and 6 trick. It made a normal noise for a second and then buzzed. Now what? Could I have electrically hooked it up backward? It did take forever to start the car which I thought was a bit weird for a return style fuel system.

I guess the next step will be to pull the supply hose off the main pump and try to pump fuel into a jug with the lift pump. Hopefully I didn't burn up either of the brand new pumps already.

At least I did this hack job NOW instead of waiting for the mounts to come on Thursday because then my mood would be even worse!
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:22 PM   #53
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My hunch is confirmed. Nothing came out the supply hose, but fuel started pumping through the return hose, rail, and back through the filter and main pump. Yikes. I've never flowed backward through a regulator before either... I'm not gonna think about that yet. I guess my saving grace is that both pumps should have at least had cool fuel running through them.

Back to the tank I go! At least it will be nice and rust-free this time.
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:26 PM   #54
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My hunch is confirmed. Nothing came out the supply hose, but fuel started pumping through the return hose, rail, and back through the filter and main pump. Yikes. I've never flowed backward through a regulator before either... I'm not gonna think about that yet. I guess my saving grace is that both pumps should have at least had cool fuel running through them.

Back to the tank I go! At least it will be nice and rust-free this time.
Have you had someone jump the fuses while you are on the other end with a voltmeter on the unplugged supply pump harness? Takes 15 min to verify that the pump is getting proper voltage... I think they buzz & sputter when they receive too low voltage.
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:33 PM   #55
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I guess the next step will be to pull the supply hose off the main pump and try to pump fuel into a jug with the lift pump. Hopefully I didn't burn up either of the brand new pumps already.
Yea give that a shot...I fought similar issues and turned out my (new) tank pump was underperforming. I ended up replacing it with the "upgrade" pump from ipd and the main pump has been quiet.
https://www.ipdusa.com/products/5799...ermarket-7845k

I used the value of ~1qt / 30 sec of operation for my evaluation (Greenbook TP30454). This was in a Kjet car so YMMV.
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:38 PM   #56
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Have you had someone jump the fuses while you are on the other end with a voltmeter on the unplugged supply pump harness? Takes 15 min to verify that the pump is getting proper voltage... I think they buzz & sputter when they receive too low voltage.
I can do that myself right? If I unplug, it shouldn't hurt anything having the fuses jumped. I'll give it a whirl
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:42 PM   #57
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Okay... With the lift pump unplugged I can hear the main pump whining when I jump fuses. Now I'm confused.
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:46 PM   #58
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The pump only seems to plug in one way which is guess is why I never thought twice about it. It also matches my the way I plugged in the old pump.

Last edited by volvowagoon; 07-27-2020 at 02:08 PM..
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:51 PM   #59
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Okay... With the lift pump unplugged I can hear the main pump whining when I jump fuses. Now I'm confused.
That is strange... i'd reread art's guide again.

Maybe unplug the main pump too. put some long lead aligators on a volt meter, set to DC, and measure main pump voltage and then the tank pump voltage. You could have a tricky fuel pump relay? This is getting beyond my level of experience.

I'd just do that to completely cross out any chance of electrical issues. If you see a full 12.4-12.7 volts (also check your battery's resting terminal voltage), then you can probably cross off wiring. It'd be extra correct to do this test while the pump is actually plugged in though.

IDK about the main pump running with the fuses jumped though, I don't remember that happening when I did mine.

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The pump only seems to plug in one way which is guess is why I never thought twice about it. It also matches my the way I plugged in the old pump.
And you're certain you attached the ring terminals to the pump in the correct orientation too?
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:09 PM   #60
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That is strange... i'd reread art's guide again.

Maybe unplug the main pump too. put some long lead aligators on a volt meter, set to DC, and measure main pump voltage and then the tank pump voltage. You could have a tricky fuel pump relay? This is getting beyond my level of experience.

I'd just do that to completely cross out any chance of electrical issues. If you see a full 12.4-12.7 volts (also check your battery's resting terminal voltage), then you can probably cross off wiring. It'd be extra correct to do this test while the pump is actually plugged in though.

IDK about the main pump running with the fuses jumped though, I don't remember that happening when I did mine.



And you're certain you attached the ring terminals to the pump in the correct orientation too?
I'm going to read it now. The last post is edited with a picture.
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:15 PM   #61
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Main pump thing is resolved. I'm a doofus and forgot to remove the in-tank pump fuse before doing the check. The main pump works as intended, but I cannot hear the in-tank pump working at all. I'll keep reading.
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:34 PM   #62
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Looking at my pictures and comparing them to cleanflametrap.com, I have the revised sender with correct wiring which makes sense since that seems to have been corrected for five years. I checked voltage with the pump plugged in. I back probed the pump side connector to the black wire and put the other side on the brown ring terminal. Then I jumped the fuse. 11.9V. I don't know what to do at this point except pull the pump out again, leave it plugged in, and check voltage on the pump itself.
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Old 07-27-2020, 04:04 PM   #63
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Old 07-27-2020, 04:04 PM   #64
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I had to put my brain in and start diagnosis. I checked the lug for power like I said, and saw that I was getting voltage to the sender, so I moved down the chain.


For sanity I jumped the pump to the power wire and made it spin. Sweet. Then I checked the resistance between the pump connector and the connector inside the car. This is what I thought I would see.


Then I moved up to the other side of the connector. It looks like I found my problem.


No good. Thanks aftermarket.


Let's rig it.




Then for sanity once again, I put it together, jumped the fuse again and watched gas pump out of the supply line. That should be the end of the saga, but it isn't. I went for a test drive. No dice. I came back to the house, jumped the fuse again, nothing.
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Old 07-27-2020, 04:12 PM   #65
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Haha I was about to reply. Mine is like it showed it your pic. I need to hang out inside and drink some water. I need to cool down not only physically, but mentally. I hate doing things twice, but three times? In this heat and humidity? I'm gonna lose it!

EDIT: ...and now a storm is coming through AGAIN probably just long enough to ensure that it stays absolutely miserable outside. When it stops I'll pull the supply line off again and jump the fuse. Something really goofy is going on.
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Old 07-27-2020, 04:20 PM   #66
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Haha I was about to reply. Mine is like it showed it your pic. I need to hang out inside and drink some water. I need to cool down not only physically, but mentally. I hate doing things twice, but three times? In this heat and humidity? I'm gonna lose it!

EDIT: ...and now a storm is coming through AGAIN probably just long enough to ensure that it stays absolutely miserable outside. When it stops I'll pull the supply line off again and jump the fuse. Something really goofy is going on.
Whenever the pump is silent when jumping the fuses, that's when you need your voltmeter. Intermittent functionality could mean power loss or pump malfunction. The voltmeter will tell you which it is. Preferably, keep the pump plugged in, and find a way to safely get the voltmeter leads on the plug leads on that black connector in the trunk without shorting anything, and then jump the fuses and see what the voltmeter says.

You gotta do this while you are experiencing the 'no response' scenario from the pump though, so maybe wire up the voltmeter, go for a drive, then as soon as you come back you're ready to test it out.

Jump fuse, silent pump, voltmeter reads ~12V, you've got a problem between the connector & pump.

Jump fuse, silent pump, voltmeter reads 0 or a few volts, now you know you need to snoop up the line and check grounds, spades, etc.

Did you make sure to replace/attach the ground ring terminal?

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Old 07-27-2020, 04:30 PM   #67
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Whenever the pump is silent when jumping the fuses, that's when you need your voltmeter. Intermittent functionality could mean power loss or pump malfunction. The voltmeter will tell you which it is. Preferably, keep the pump plugged in, and find a way to safely get the voltmeter leads on the plug leads on that black connector in the trunk without shorting anything, and then jump the fuses and see what the voltmeter says.

You gotta do this while you are experiencing the 'no response' scenario from the pump though, so maybe wire up the voltmeter, go for a drive, then as soon as you come back you're ready to test it out.

Jump fuse, silent pump, voltmeter reads ~12V, you've got a problem between the connector & pump.

Jump fuse, silent pump, voltmeter reads 0 or a few volts, now you know you need to snoop up the line and check grounds, spades, etc.

Did you make sure to replace/attach the ground ring terminal?

Gotcha. Yeah, the ring terminal is secure. I'll try what you said. As expected, the storm is already dying down. Now I can start the sweating process all over. I wish we still had volvowiringdiagrams.com. I'll be completely lost if it's before the connector.
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:56 PM   #68
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The rain stopped, so I went straight to the fuses. Everything worked fine. Figures. I then hooked alligator clips to the black wire side of the sender connector and the ring terminal. Those got hooked to positive and negative on my DVOM respectively.


The only thing to do then was go for a drive to see if it would change. I adjusted my rear view mirror and kept vigilant.


I never saw it dip below 12.8V after driving 50 miles in stop/go traffic, but it seemed to run pretty good the whole time... This time I stepped back and reflected. I haven't driven this car in almost two weeks. In the mean time, I've been driving a turbo Camaro every day.... Maybe a lot of what I've been feeling today is just placebo? After all, I used to make fun of people coming in to the Honda dealer after trading their Tahoe for a CRV and complaining about no power. I figured it was time to let Allie drive.

She thought the acceleration and torque was way better than she had ever remembered it, so I accepted the current condition as normal. This doesn't entirely explain the lack of audible lift pump action after the previous test drive, but I've been checking this entire time with the full interior together. Once I pulled the interior apart (after the post storm drive), shut the hatch, and tried again, I realized that it may have been impossible to know with all the lawn mowers and birds in the neighborhood. Then again, these last two drives were both AFTER the storm and therefore almost thirty degrees cooler than earlier in the day. That's a big swing, but I guess I'll keep driving it through the week and see if my condition comes back.

Thanks everybody for the help. I guess the moral of the story is to test your aftermarket senders before you put the whole car back together! Also, diagnosing "low power" issues on a car that's rated for less than a third of what your daily driver is making might be difficult.
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Old 07-28-2020, 07:16 AM   #69
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Update: I drove it to work this morning and it still feels nice. Maybe I've just talked myself into thinking it's fine, but the cruise control is much more responsive, the engine accelerates and revs out much smoother, and the car takes off a lot quicker. I still have a buzzing noise, but I'm pretty confident that it's just a rattling heat shield or something. Either way, I'm writing off my post sender repair "issues" as placebo and unrealistic expectations. I'm going to stick some goo up by the seemingly broken muffler heat shield, install the the fuel pump mounts whenever they arrive, and send this thing to MI! Can't wait.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:04 AM   #70
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Update: I drove it to work this morning and it still feels nice. Maybe I've just talked myself into thinking it's fine, but the cruise control is much more responsive, the engine accelerates and revs out much smoother, and the car takes off a lot quicker. I still have a buzzing noise, but I'm pretty confident that it's just a rattling heat shield or something. Either way, I'm writing off my post sender repair "issues" as placebo and unrealistic expectations. I'm going to stick some goo up by the seemingly broken muffler heat shield, install the the fuel pump mounts whenever they arrive, and send this thing to MI! Can't wait.
I can see how going from 300 hp to a 240 would make you think something's wrong.

As my fiancee puts it, they're unsafely slow. She doesn't know about the kickdown cable though.

Keep your DVOM on hand & send it!
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:50 AM   #71
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It got toasty yesterday, and I still haven't noticed any running problems. I have noticed that the new pumps are kind of noisy, but I only notice it when the blower motor is off and the windows are closed....

They must not be THAT noisy. Again, I think my brain is playing games.

I decided to buy Moose and I a little present for all the trouble. I think it's still going to be a while before the new trim shows up, but I have to figure out why it takes a minute for this thing to start working anyway. I'm guessing that the old gross power wire I used is junk. I'm sure I'll figure it out, but this was kinda just a novelty anyway. I've always thought the small tachs were neat and a perfect instrumentation addition for a car like this.
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