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Old 07-23-2020, 06:42 PM   #1
fatcatbestcat
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Default B20 - Broke a timing gear, any ideas on how to remove?



Yeah, something tells me that a screwdriver wasn't enough to hold the gear in place while I took the nut off. Any ideas on how to get it off now?
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:09 PM   #2
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Do you have a rattle gun? Or, short of that, use a dull chisel and a tappy tappy hammer on the nut flats.

Or rotate around to the crank gear, and hold the flywheel in place - more leverage.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:22 PM   #3
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Do you have a rattle gun?
I do, but won't that just spin the gear?

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Or rotate around to the crank gear, and hold the flywheel in place - more leverage.
Might be hard to do with the engine in the car, but I'll give it a try if the rattle gun doesn't work.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:29 PM   #4
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I agree with trying to bust it loose using an impact wrench, preferably a stout, air-powered one.

To help keep it from rotating while trying to loosen the nut you could use a Vise-Grip to hold it in place, with one jaw in the right most gear hole and the other jaw on the edge of the block.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:28 PM   #5
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A ½" air gun should blast the nut off providing you have enough CFM.

If not, mesh the gears and jam a rag or paper towel into them to lock the gears.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:59 PM   #6
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^

36mm or 1.5" iirc.
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Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

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Old 07-23-2020, 09:02 PM   #7
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36mm or 1.5" iirc.
That's right.
I've got the right socket, just my impact wrench is a wired electric one - not failed me so far, but if that doesn't work, I think I can just barely get at the cam plate bolts, so maybe I could loosen those and take the whole assembly off.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:19 PM   #8
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Pulling the cam thrust plate bolts won't help unless you are planning on pulling the camshaft. And that will also requires you to remove the distributor drive gear, cylinder head and lifters too unless you are willing to pull the engine. With the engine removed you can rotate the engine so it's upside down and then with the rockershaft loosened so all the lifters are not on a cam lobe you can pull the camshaft with the broken timing gear, but you still have to remove the distributor drive gear.

You need to do as my brother, hiperfauto, suggested. Rotate the cam gear counter clockwise until you can make the remaining gears to mesh with the crankshaft gear. Then rotate the crankshaft gear clockwise to make the cam gear move to a point where the middle of the remaining gears is close to the crankshaft gear. Then insert a rag in between the gears and rotate the crankshaft gear a bit further clockwise until the rag is fed into the gears enough to jam the gears in place. Then you can remove the cam nut.

Although I do have the correct tool for removing the timing gear, there may not be enough of your timing gear left to use the special tool. I also have the correct tool for installing the cam gear. I also have NOS original Volvo fiber timing gears, aftermarket fiber gears and I also have steel timing gear sets.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:32 PM   #9
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Pulling the cam thrust plate bolts won't help unless you are planning on pulling the camshaft.
The whole reason I'm replacing the timing gears, swapping in a D cam.

I have the other tools for pulling the gears, but absolute worst case, I'm hoping (with the cam removed), that I can tap the gear off the end once the bolt is off.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by fatcatbestcat View Post
The whole reason I'm replacing the timing gears, swapping in a D cam.

I have the other tools for pulling the gears, but absolute worst case, I'm hoping (with the cam removed), that I can tap the gear off the end once the bolt is off.
They're usually pretty easy to coax off with a couple screwdrivers, but to get the small gear off you'll need to rig up a puller.

B20 crank gear puller tool
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood Chair View Post
They're usually pretty easy to coax off with a couple screwdrivers, but to get the small gear off you'll need to rig up a puller.

B20 crank gear puller tool
I've got that one too!

On a side note, can I get away without special tools when it comes to reinstall the gears? I didn't buy any reinstallation tools.
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
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The whole reason I'm replacing the timing gears, swapping in a D cam.

I have the other tools for pulling the gears, but absolute worst case, I'm hoping (with the cam removed), that I can tap the gear off the end once the bolt is off.
Be careful doing that. I once made a cam swap in my 1800E (flat cam lobe) get a lot more involved when I held the cam gear in place and tapped the cam backward to remove the gear (I didn't have a puller). When the cam popped loose, it went backward into the engine, and I heard a little metallic rattle inside the bellhousing. Yeah... turns out there's a metal plug on the far end, I'd knocked it out.

So my cam swap job grew to include pulling the trans and replacing that plug. Put a new RMS/clutch disc/pilot/throwout in it while it was apart, too. No point putting parts like that back in if they have much wear at all.
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:00 AM   #13
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Do not use a impact gun to tighten the nut. Made that mistake only once.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:22 PM   #14
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Do not use a impact gun to tighten the nut. Made that mistake only once.
What were the consequences of zipping it in with an impact gun?
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:29 PM   #15
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It's not necessary to have the installation tools but it sure makes the job easier. The crank gear requires a lot of force to remove/install and as John said, you risk knocking out the cam plug if you tap the cam back too far.

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Old 07-25-2020, 09:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
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What were the consequences of zipping it in with an impact gun?
Broke the threaded end off.
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Old 07-26-2020, 03:00 PM   #17
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Since you’ll be replacing the gear... save the broken one and use it to jam the gears when torquing the new one on. It also works for removal.
The shop tag in the gears also works great, as mentioned above.
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Old 07-26-2020, 04:25 PM   #18
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Related (probably dumb, but I figure I should ask) question;

I'm not sure I have a puller capable of removing the hub on the crank gear (at least not without permanently gacking it) - would it be a bad idea to replace the cam gear (with an aluminum one, in this case) and leave the steel crank gear?

Just asking.
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Old 07-26-2020, 04:43 PM   #19
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No they need to be a matched set.
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:02 PM   #20
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It's not a good idea to mix and match metal timing gears. Some have different numbers of teeth and there may be other differences such as the helix angle. The fiber cam gears can be replaced without changing the crank gear.

A steering wheel puller will work to remove the crank gear. Some auto parts stores will loan you a puller for free.

https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tool...00000043798748
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
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A steering wheel puller will work to remove the crank gear. Some auto parts stores will loan you a puller for free.
I'll see if I can get my hands on one.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:23 AM   #22
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Alright, well I have a conclusion.

Tried to get the gear off with the rag-stuff technique, and I stopped when it felt like it was going to break again.

Fortunately, I seem to have broken enough of the gear off to get at the cam plate bolts, so I was just able to pull the cam out as one unit. I still need to get the nut off the end, but at least it's out of the car now.




I have also acquired a puller to get the crankshaft hub off.
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