DET17's "Project cheap thrills" - '92 944T

[DET17]

I just thought of something you might not be aware of. The offset spherical mounts you are using have a modular spacer installed on them on the bottom, its only needed when using the stock spring perch, when you move to a coilover spring you can remove it. That will move the spring up by ~5mm or so which will give you some more clearance to your springs / tires.

That would have been excellent information to have known, prior to assembly & installation. Have you considered providing exploded views of your systems, and indicating such options for the end user?

Technically the spring assembly is not metal to metal as you are using the luxe bearings and there are plastic layers of isolation between the metal connections but it does have ALOT less separation than the factory Lazy Boi spring seat.

Indeed. I'm not familiar with your Luxe Steer system.... the bearings I'm using are OEM, INA part # F-230378. Bought them years ago from IPD I believe. So everyone knows what we're talking about, a few pics attached showing the female receiving plate which this bearing seats perfectly on. Had I know that your modular spacer was superfluous for my application, I would have removed it........

[blkaplan]

Originally Posted by DET17

Indeed. I'm not familiar with your Luxe Steer system.... the bearings I'm using are OEM, INA part # F-230378. Bought them years ago from IPD I believe. So everyone knows what we're talking about, a few pics attached showing the female receiving plate which this bearing seats perfectly on. Had I know that your modular spacer was superfluous for my application, I would have removed it........

Same thing.

[DET17]

So as Ben informed, there is indeed a spacer installed into the SELECT top mount assembly. It appeared to be a light press fit, so I set out to remove it. A small "pecking hammer" as Dad used to call them, and a sharp chisel is what was needed:



Making a light chisel "wedge drive" between the top plate and the spacer, 3 points 90* apart, and sure enough the spacer walked out. Just as Ben said, the INA bearing drops right into the same female bore in the top mount plate:



My non-NIST traceable scale says these spacers are 8mm thick, so the front of the sedan will drop by that amount.



After comparing notes with Redblockpowered, it seems my sedan will only be about 3/4 ~ 1 inch lower than stock ride height. From memory, Ben says his QSRC's are necessary when your 7/9 is lowered more than 1.5 inches / 45mm or thereabouts. With the sedan back up near stock height, I will remove the roll correctors and restore the stock setup. No more middle hole "quick steering", but the OE setup will be AOK for daily driving duty. Since the QSRCs are on their way out, my shortened/chopped brake dust shields are no longer necessary. With all the new goodies going into the front suspenders, I couldn't resist putting brand new OEM dust shields back in service:



Coming in the mail are NOS control stay "radius rods" with the 396mm length (used in the 94 and 95 models only). My 92 sedan has the 385mm length, so these long rods will increase the caster and give all around improvement to front end steering functions. More to come.... if parts arrive this coming Saturday, she'll begin going back together up front next weekend.

[blkaplan]

I am assuming you will raise the spring perches by the 8mm to keep the same ride height and gain wheel / spring perch clearance?

[GSWAGON]

Coming in the mail are NOS control stay "radius rods" with the 396mm length (used in the 94 and 95 models only). My 92 sedan has the 385mm length, so these long rods will increase the caster and give all around improvement to front end steering functions. More to come.... if parts arrive this coming Saturday, she'll begin going back together up front next weekend.

Where did you order these from, part number? I never knew the later model ones were longer. Direct bolt in I assume, just changes the angle?

[DET17]

Originally Posted by blkaplan

I am assuming you will raise the spring perches by the 8mm to keep the same ride height and gain wheel / spring perch clearance?

Yes, that will be step 1; Install the 32mm Gil Racing adapters if needed.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by GSWAGON

Where did you order these from, part number? I never knew the later model ones were longer. Direct bolt in I assume, just changes the angle?

I will add that detail here soon.

[blkaplan]

Originally Posted by DET17

Yes, that will be step 1; Install the 32mm Gil Racing adapters if needed.

Based on what you previously had and the fact that you can now increase clearance. There's no reason you would need a 32mm in the front... unless you just want to, then by all means....

[DET17]

As the parts trickle in, the work continues. The lower control arm "stay (radius) rods" in the 396mm length:





PN should be visible in this last pic. Thanks to BLACKVLV, eBay seller for providing these.

Next, I found out that Roy had these 30K mile later style aluminum LCA's in his thinning hoard. Rather than fight my old cast steel versions (with bushing replacements), I bought these to add to the improvements. NOTE - this type uses a different sway end link than my old 92 version:



All I lack is the JEGS shipment with Eibach 2.5 inch ID spring isolators..... and the struts will go back in for the final time.

[blkaplan]

What do you think the Eibach isolaters will do for you?

[DET17]

Originally Posted by blkaplan

What do you think the Eibach isolaters will do for you?

Isolate some NVH from the chassis, cabin. At $10 a piece, it cannot hurt. I understand that plastic can't isolate like rubber spring seats.

[blkaplan]

Originally Posted by DET17

Isolate some NVH from the chassis, cabin. At $10 a piece, it cannot hurt. I understand that plastic can't isolate like rubber spring seats.

Those wont help with that at all.

They are intended more to be a cheap version of the luxe steer which lets the spring slip but you don't need it since you have a roller bearing.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by blkaplan

Those wont help with that at all.

They are intended more to be a cheap version of the luxe steer which lets the spring slip but you don't need it since you have a roller bearing.

My test drive of the front suspension revealed a lot of "metallic noise" transmitting into the cabin. What may well have been the culprit, was I tightened the KONI top nut only holding back by the 11mm hex which is at the top of the strut (centered within it, the damping adjustment tab). You can't get a lot of counter-torque with such a small resistance, so I think the strut shaft might have been turning inside the spherical top mount bearing. I think the KONI Sport manual calls for a torque of around 55 lb.ft. on the main nut, and I'm sure I wasn't at that. This time around, I'll use my impact on the top nut (24mm? from memory) and confirm torque achieved with my torque wrench. I'm installing the Eibach isolators regardless.... as I said, it cannot hurt NVH, and it is better than metal to metal.

Onward.

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by DET17

My test drive of the front suspension revealed a lot of "metallic noise" transmitting into the cabin. What may well have been the culprit, was I tightened the KONI top nut only holding back by the 11mm hex which is at the top of the strut (centered within it, the damping adjustment tab). You can't get a lot of counter-torque with such a small resistance, so I think the strut shaft might have been turning inside the spherical top mount bearing. I think the KONI Sport manual calls for a torque of around 55 lb.ft. on the main nut, and I'm sure I wasn't at that. This time around, I'll use my impact on the top nut (24mm? from memory) and confirm torque achieved with my torque wrench. I'm installing the Eibach isolators regardless.... as I said, it cannot hurt NVH, and it is better than metal to metal.

Onward.

That could have been the pillow ball moving in the strout mount housing on warm days. I found the pocket in mine was ~0.025" too deep. Loctite bearing retaining compound shut it up.

So if this metallic noise includes popping and groaning, this may be it.

[blkaplan]

Originally Posted by Harlard

That could have been the pillow ball moving in the strout mount housing on warm days. I found the pocket in mine was ~0.025" too deep. Loctite bearing retaining compound shut it up.

So if this metallic noise includes popping and groaning, this may be it.

This could very well be true.

loctite 680 and flipping the tapered snap ring can help a lot if this is the situation.

Easy to do when its still apart as well.

[redblockpowered]

What's the weight savings with the aluminum control arms? I've thought about getting a set.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by redblockpowered

What's the weight savings with the aluminum control arms? I've thought about getting a set.

I'll weigh one of the cast steel units and share it..... before the fetch me $0.05 per lb.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by Harlard

That could have been the pillow ball moving in the strout mount housing on warm days. I found the pocket in mine was ~0.025" too deep. Loctite bearing retaining compound shut it up.

So if this metallic noise includes popping and groaning, this may be it.

I ran these same top mounts for several years prior to the coilover conversion.... and they were completely silent. What changed, is the cause of the metallic sounds. We will see how vocal it is after the top nut reaches the KONI spec torque.

For sure ,the Loctite GREEN retention compound works.... I've used it for decades at work.

[blkaplan]

Originally Posted by DET17

I ran these same top mounts for several years prior to the coilover conversion.... and they were completely silent. What changed, is the cause of the metallic sounds. We will see how vocal it is after the top nut reaches the KONI spec torque.

For sure ,the Loctite GREEN retention compound works.... I've used it for decades at work.

If they have been quite then it sounds like the bearing assembly is fine....

If that top nut is under torqued, it can cause a real racket.

[Swedbrick]

What is the pn of those aluminium LCA's I have never encountered them in europe

[Chilm]

Originally Posted by Swedbrick

What is the pn of those aluminium LCA's I have never encountered them in europe

This... very curious

[Swedbrick]

Originally Posted by Chilm

This... very curious

Are they more common on later 940's? I've mostly worked on pre-facelift 740's

[Chilm]

Originally Posted by Swedbrick

Are they more common on later 940's? I've mostly worked on pre-facelift 740's

I personally have not seen them ever on any 940, so I'm very curious too about where they come from.

[blkaplan]

Early 960s had them. I dont think the 940s got them.

Aluminum hood cars usually had aluminum control arms too.

[Chilm]

Originally Posted by blkaplan

Early 960s had them. I dont think the 940s got them.

Aluminum hood cars usually had aluminum control arms too.

Thanks Ben, I've really never seen them come by. Weight wise these alu rods are preferable I think. The weight of the iron ones is huge, I'm only curious for the detoriation of the surface where the "mushroom" rubber rests cuz Aluminium is a lot softer.