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Old 05-28-2019, 10:43 PM   #126
Duder
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Thanks guys. I'm excited too. The plan is to make steady progress and keep the dream alive.

I pulled the B20 a few days ago, and took some real photos.





Balls.




Crust.




Clean!







No more balls, minimal crust.

The rusty spots will have to be what they are for a while, until I get to the point where an engine bay respray is a priority. Next thing on the list is battery tray removal and inner fender cleanup in that area.

Cheers!
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:09 AM   #127
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Looks like action. Very clean. Sometimes no balls and minimal crust is enough.

Any of this stuff for sale? V


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Old 05-29-2019, 07:22 AM   #128
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Nice work! Should be a really cool sleeper by the time it's done. Any plans on suspension stuff yet? In my head this thing would be epic with a close to stock-ish look, but that's all personal I guess.

Looking forward to following the progress!
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Old 05-29-2019, 11:38 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Harry Tuttle View Post
Looks like action. Very clean. Sometimes no balls and minimal crust is enough.

Any of this stuff for sale? V
Yep! Nothing's listed yet, but yes, all of the stock parts I'm pulling out should be for sale. Let me know what you're interested in.

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Nice work! Should be a really cool sleeper by the time it's done. Any plans on suspension stuff yet? In my head this thing would be epic with a close to stock-ish look, but that's all personal I guess.

Looking forward to following the progress!
Good feedback; thanks! For suspension & wheels there are two cars I'm using as examples. Both are 1975s, coincidentally: Thomas' (toms_elleck) orange LS-swapped 242 with stock-ish looking larger steelies, and TIPSP's blue B20 supercharged 242 on modern HRE 5-spokes. I really like the look of both of those. Thinking it may be cool to have both wheel & tire combos and be able to swap between the two setups.



http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=320241




http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=317056

The 5-spokes I already have; they are ACSchnitzer Type2, 3-piece 17s from the 90s. These are the wheels that everyone seems to be copying now and running on E36s. They were on my E34 M5 but stayed with me after I sold it. I posted a teaser pic with one of them mocked up on the former shell of this project:



This lends itself to 5x120 front hubs to get the offset and PCD correct. Many years ago Poik was looking into adapting E36 struts & uprights to his 242, and I'm thinking that makes lots of sense. Gives me many options for spring & damper combos, bigger wheel bearings, better hub offset, more camber adjustability (strut tube bolts to the upright), and bolt-on M3 brakes.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:02 PM   #130
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I like the look of a clean five spoke wheel. This thing should be awesome by the time you're done with it.

I used to have Azev A wheels on my Saab c900, similar style single piece wheels. Also a very cool 90's look. I can post a picture if you guys don't hate Saabs to much lol. I don't think I've ever seen a 240 on a set of those, but I think it suits the simple lines of these 80's/early 90's cars so well. Might be interesting too, especially if you're going 5x120, plenty of (wide as hell) sets around. At least in Europe.
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:34 PM   #131
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I like the look of a clean five spoke wheel. This thing should be awesome by the time you're done with it.

I used to have Azev A wheels on my Saab c900, similar style single piece wheels. Also a very cool 90's look. I can post a picture if you guys don't hate Saabs to much lol. I don't think I've ever seen a 240 on a set of those, but I think it suits the simple lines of these 80's/early 90's cars so well. Might be interesting too, especially if you're going 5x120, plenty of (wide as hell) sets around. At least in Europe.
I think Saabs are interesting too; feel free to post photos.

My ACS wheels are 8.5" front / 9.5" rear. I'll likely run 235 front tires and 255 rear if I can fit them without hacking the body. 245 would work too if I need a bit more space. Worst case I could get a different barrel to narrow the rear wheels slightly.
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:22 PM   #132
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Fun comparison. Here's the earliest photo we have of the engine bay, from the Colorado seller in 2015.



And now:

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Old 05-31-2019, 03:03 PM   #133
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I think Saabs are interesting too; feel free to post photos.


I've since gone to 17" wheels since these were slightly buckled (found that out after having them restored) and I didn't want to deal with 30 year old wheels again. Found a set of BBS CS wheels that were brand new and dirt dirt cheap, couldn't resist.. These wheels are still very high on my all time favorites though.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:52 PM   #134
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That's a rad 900. Wheels fit the style well for sure. My good buddy here in LA had a 99EMS for a while, fun car to drive and I liked it more than expected (confession)!
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:57 AM   #135
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Thanks! It's a really fun car to own and it serves me well as a daily driver. For a FWD car they actually handle pretty okay, just a little nose heavy.

Looking forward to see the 245 V8 come to life in the coming pages!
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:43 PM   #136
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Those wheels are rad, look so good! Shoulda seen the bees nest behind that headlight sheesh lol.
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:08 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Duder View Post

This lends itself to 5x120 front hubs to get the offset and PCD correct. Many years ago Poik was looking into adapting E36 struts & uprights to his 242, and I'm thinking that makes lots of sense. Gives me many options for spring & damper combos, bigger wheel bearings, better hub offset, more camber adjustability (strut tube bolts to the upright), and bolt-on M3 brakes.
Adapting e36 struts and hubs looks to be pretty easy. I mocked it up a while back.
Basically just ream the lower ball joint to fit the Volvo ball joint, and make a spacer/bolt pattern adapter for the top of the strut.
I didn't measure up ackerman or bumpsteer. Maybe I'll get around to doing that here in a bit.
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Old 06-05-2019, 11:24 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by reiernumans View Post
Thanks! It's a really fun car to own and it serves me well as a daily driver. For a FWD car they actually handle pretty okay, just a little nose heavy.

Looking forward to see the 245 V8 come to life in the coming pages!
If I ever visit the Netherlands I'll look you up and ask for a test drive!

Glad to know that others are watching the project with interest; that always helps me with motivation and progress.


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Those wheels are rad, look so good! Shoulda seen the bees nest behind that headlight sheesh lol.
Yeah some of that nest was still around the headlight on the inner fender and core support panels. It all washed off pretty easily but I wouldn't have wanted to be the one dealing with those bad boys when they still lived there!


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Adapting e36 struts and hubs looks to be pretty easy. I mocked it up a while back.
Basically just ream the lower ball joint to fit the Volvo ball joint, and make a spacer/bolt pattern adapter for the top of the strut.
I didn't measure up ackerman or bumpsteer. Maybe I'll get around to doing that here in a bit.
Nice. I took the idea from Poik (Eric) who also mocked it up and said something similar. The physical mods necessary seem very straightforward, but like you I'm cautious about the geometry details.

One very nice thing about going to an E36 style stock strut or coilover setup is that the upright bolts on to the strut housing, so you can make camber adjustments by using carefully selected shims between the two parts. We did this on my E36 Lemons car and it worked out awesomely.

I'm almost brain-damaged enough to start considering swapping over to the E36 lower control arm with its 2nd inner ball joint and lollipop bushing at the rear too...
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:16 PM   #139
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The 5-spokes I already have; they are ACSchnitzer Type2, 3-piece 17s from the 90s. These are the wheels that everyone seems to be copying now and running on E36s.
I had a set of knock off Type 3's and LOVED them on the red 86 slicktop 240 wagon I had in England. Turns out the knock offs are actually more rare than the real thing because the company producing them were shut down very quickly by AC Schnitzer.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:37 PM   #140
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Fun photo: here's the pile of dirt that was left after washing the engine bay, letting the driveway dry out, and sweeping up the leftovers. It was a good 1" tall.

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Old 06-05-2019, 07:40 PM   #141
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I had a set of knock off Type 3's and LOVED them on the red 86 slicktop 240 wagon I had in England. Turns out the knock offs are actually more rare than the real thing because the company producing them were shut down very quickly by AC Schnitzer.
Someone must be making new knock-offs now - over the past few years I've seen them on tons of E36s, Z3s, etc.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:57 PM   #142
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Nice. I took the idea from Poik (Eric) who also mocked it up and said something similar. The physical mods necessary seem very straightforward, but like you I'm cautious about the geometry details.

One very nice thing about going to an E36 style stock strut or coilover setup is that the upright bolts on to the strut housing, so you can make camber adjustments by using carefully selected shims between the two parts. We did this on my E36 Lemons car and it worked out awesomely.
I will definitely have too look into this as well as I have a set of 5x120 wheels that I would like to install and was trying to determine the best route for this. Adapters are obviously the easiest but you might be able to make a few upgrades at one time with the E36 hardware.

What are you planning for brake assist? Hydroboost?
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:44 PM   #143
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I will definitely have too look into this as well as I have a set of 5x120 wheels that I would like to install and was trying to determine the best route for this. Adapters are obviously the easiest but you might be able to make a few upgrades at one time with the E36 hardware.

What are you planning for brake assist? Hydroboost?
For brakes I can't use a vacuum booster in the stock location. There are a few options and they are interrelated to power steering choices I need to make as well, and turbo exhaust packaging.

Brake options:
  • Hydroboost from a Mustang or Astro van
  • Relocated vacuum booster with a linkage, like an E34 540i
  • Relocated vacuum booster with purely hydraulic connection, like an 1800
  • Some manner of electro-mechanical booster
  • No power brakes - careful selection of MC & caliper hardware & redesign of pedal to ensure light enough effort with reasonable travel (not ideal but maybe doable)

Hydraulic pump options:
  • Stock Mustang belt-driven PS pump into steering rack and/or hydroboost - this will make my driver's side exhaust manifold & downpipe packaging more difficult
  • Electro-hydraulic booster, from a modern Mini or MR2, into steering rack and/or hydroboost - maybe asking too much to get both steering and brake assist from one of these

Steering options:
  • Stock Volvo power rack fed by belt driven PS pump or Mini electric pump
  • Manual rack or de-powered rack with electric assist - Prius or Yaris column for example, under the dash
  • Pure manual (last choice)

If I do electric or manual steering assist, I could potentially use one of the Mini electro-hydraulic pumps in conjunction with a hydroboost brake setup, as another permutation.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:04 PM   #144
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I owned an 02 Mustang GT. The brakes were pretty damn decent, and they had the remote booster servo.
Don't know if that's your criteria, or if you're looking at purely fitment.
Also, it's interesting that your old B20 has a red crank pulley. I always thought they were black. Maybe I should redo mine on my 73....
Cool project, by the way. Was looking forward to you hotrodding the B20 though!
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:27 PM   #145
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I owned an 02 Mustang GT. The brakes were pretty damn decent, and they had the remote booster servo.
Don't know if that's your criteria, or if you're looking at purely fitment.
Also, it's interesting that your old B20 has a red crank pulley. I always thought they were black. Maybe I should redo mine on my 73....
Cool project, by the way. Was looking forward to you hotrodding the B20 though!
Steve
Hydroboost makes the most sense I think; thanks for the feedback about your Mustang. Only trouble is, then I need my power steering pump to run both steering & brakes unless I go with electric boosted or manual steering.

I should probably get my hands on a stock '05 Mustang PS pump, install it on the engine, and see if I can get my exhaust plumbing puzzle solved.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:37 PM   #146
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Oh, and the B20 "may live on" in another project - pending some investigation though!
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:25 AM   #147
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I'll say that the manual/un-boosted brakes on the rally car are really easy to live with, even with cold Hawk DTC30 brake pads. Yes, it requires more force than a boosted setup, it's only ~2x more force.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:04 PM   #148
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I'll say that the manual/un-boosted brakes on the rally car are really easy to live with, even with cold Hawk DTC30 brake pads. Yes, it requires more force than a boosted setup, it's only ~2x more force.
Thanks for the feedback; that's encouraging to hear. What is your brake setup - which MC and calipers are you using? Stock 240 stuff?
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:26 PM   #149
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Thanks for the feedback; that's encouraging to hear. What is your brake setup - which MC and calipers are you using? Stock 240 stuff?
Wilwood forged superlight internals (1.62 bore) in the front with 11.75" x1.25" rotors, and some dynalight 4 piston (1.12 bore) on 11x0.8" rotors out back.

MCs are 3/4" front and rear, with a Tilton bias bar added into the stock pedal box using a 6:1 ratio. I'd probably go 5.5:1 next time.

Stay tuned for a brake kit using these calipers from STS... they'll fit withing an OEM 16" wheel or most aftermarket 15" wheels.

There are some pictures of the pedal box and firewall plate in this album:

Rally Racing
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:33 PM   #150
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Wilwood forged superlight internals (1.62 bore) in the front with 11.75" x1.25" rotors, and some dynalight 4 piston (1.12 bore) on 11x0.8" rotors out back.

MCs are 3/4" front and rear, with a Tilton bias bar added into the stock pedal box using a 6:1 ratio. I'd probably go 5.5:1 next time.

Stay tuned for a brake kit using these calipers from STS... they'll fit withing an OEM 16" wheel or most aftermarket 15" wheels.
Interesting - thanks for all the specs. Splitting up into dual master cylinders is something I hadn't considered yet, but looks like it fits nicely.

If I do go with un-boosted brakes then I'll likely use some form of E36 M3 calipers, either stock or an upgrade package that works with the E36 hubs. I'm not planning to run anything smaller than 17" wheels on this particular car so will use the stock M3 rotor size or larger. I think stock M3 is 315mm x 28mm but I may go with something slightly over that.
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