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Cossie T3

Hi,

Here?s my setup. Original 4x4 Sierra cossie turbo (out of my original Sierra 4x4 Cossie...), bigger injectors, ipd cam, volvo
960 AMM, bigger intercooler, bigger exhaust, modified head...
Works really nice! Needed to modify the turbo manifold and water and oil lines and all intercooler hoses...
Boost starts below 2000rpm, below 3000 full boost. Horsepower I would guess between 280 and 300 at the crank at 18-19psi.

Cossie 4x4 compressor map
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/turbo-ls/Fig4.gif

Sounds excellent like what I'm doing, just without the modified head. I'll be aiming to run the TB0384 turbo, bigger AutoSiliconeHoses intercooler, K-jet manifold modified for EFI, 960 3" throttle body with the 012 AMM... Just need to get the manifold off for TIG'ing then it should be okay.

What needs to be modified for the oil/water lines? Are you running a separate oil cooler too I assume? Pics please!


Tim
 
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gr?sst dir Mattis.

Modified head...8v? easy clean up in the valve seat area or did you do more intensive?

Works pretty good doesn't it? Ok so you have Cossie 4x4, so you have eine grund for comparision, were you surprised how the car went after you do these mods?

Can you please send me 10 or 20 Cossie turbine housings? I am not picky is they are old 2wd units or Escort Cos ones or just plain 4x4...Oh I am willing to help pay postage..Thanks!

I thought it was easy and cheap to pick all of these bits up. Have you checked ebay.co.uk?
 
Guys, don't focus so much on compressor housing A/R. It really doesn't affect performance much.

On the compressor side, look at the wheel exducer, inducer, and aero design (as indicated most basically by number of blades, but there can be numerous wheels that share the same number but use different blade aero). If you want to get out the calipers and compare wheels, look at the tip width at the exducer, the angle of attack and rake of the blade (angle vs. the axis of rotation) and the backwards curvature of the blade root (straight radial vs. sweeping gradually backwards as you move from the center of the wheel towards the exducer).

Compressor wheel imparts all the work into the incoming airflow. Most of the losses happen in the wheel, with a bit more in the diffuser (narrow channel between wheel exducer and housing volute/scroll). The housing volute is more of a duct to collect the diffuser outflow. Sure, there are a few more % losses depending on the type of volute - including A/R - and a few % more diffusion (e.g. pressure rise) that happens there.
 
Guys, don't focus so much on compressor housing A/R. It really doesn't affect performance much.

On the compressor side, look at the wheel exducer, inducer, and aero design (as indicated most basically by number of blades, but there can be numerous wheels that share the same number but use different blade aero). If you want to get out the calipers and compare wheels, look at the tip width at the exducer, the angle of attack and rake of the blade (angle vs. the axis of rotation) and the backwards curvature of the blade root (straight radial vs. sweeping gradually backwards as you move from the center of the wheel towards the exducer).

Compressor wheel imparts all the work into the incoming airflow. Most of the losses happen in the wheel, with a bit more in the diffuser (narrow channel between wheel exducer and housing volute/scroll). The housing volute is more of a duct to collect the diffuser outflow. Sure, there are a few more % losses depending on the type of volute - including A/R - and a few % more diffusion (e.g. pressure rise) that happens there.

Your dudular Dudeness, for us humle schmucks who want to try and understand can you give us a simple sketch of impressions--your considered impression being worth more than 10,000 20 year olds who heart their whatever that duct taped on--- on the say 7 blade things like these:
T3 7 blades
441341-0002 ..........69,00 47,65 4,75 6,25 46
431905-0004 ............69,00 48,25 5,60 6,25 48
410299-0004 .............69,00 52,50 6,25 58

Or some general "given this major dia and thhis tip hgt, I would expect a 7 blade wheel to_____________in comparison to a _ ___blade wheel of same basic dimensions"

Shirley there's some reason
 
Guys, don't focus so much on compressor housing A/R. It really doesn't affect performance much.

On the compressor side, look at the wheel exducer, inducer, and aero design (as indicated most basically by number of blades, but there can be numerous wheels that share the same number but use different blade aero). If you want to get out the calipers and compare wheels, look at the tip width at the exducer, the angle of attack and rake of the blade (angle vs. the axis of rotation) and the backwards curvature of the blade root (straight radial vs. sweeping gradually backwards as you move from the center of the wheel towards the exducer).

Compressor wheel imparts all the work into the incoming airflow. Most of the losses happen in the wheel, with a bit more in the diffuser (narrow channel between wheel exducer and housing volute/scroll). The housing volute is more of a duct to collect the diffuser outflow. Sure, there are a few more % losses depending on the type of volute - including A/R - and a few % more diffusion (e.g. pressure rise) that happens there.

TB once again goes insane. va fan kan det vara?

Shirley there's some reason
 
Can you please send me 10 or 20 Cossie turbine housings? I am not picky is they are old 2wd units or Escort Cos ones or just plain 4x4...Oh I am willing to help pay postage..Thanks!

I'll have a look UK-side, there's tonnes about, there was a housing for ?75 on Fleabay UK last week but I'm after a full turbo. Will keep my eyes peeled however.

No need to look at compressor side? Eh... I'd rather look into it than not at all.
 
Your dudular Dudeness, for us humle schmucks who want to try and understand can you give us a simple sketch of impressions--your considered impression being worth more than 10,000 20 year olds who heart their whatever that duct taped on--- on the say 7 blade things like these:
T3 7 blades
441341-0002 ..........69,00 47,65 4,75 6,25 46
431905-0004 ............69,00 48,25 5,60 6,25 48
410299-0004 .............69,00 52,50 6,25 58

Or some general "given this major dia and thhis tip hgt, I would expect a 7 blade wheel to_____________in comparison to a _ ___blade wheel of same basic dimensions"

Shirley there's some reason

I just did several searches, but these are all so old that I cannot find performance maps in our systems for any of the above wheels. They were designed in 1978-79 which I know wasn't the dark ages but is prehistoric in terms of compressor aero.

441341-0002 is a "7+7" blade wheel; 7 full blades and 7 splitters (the short stubby ones) for 14 total. Exducer diameter is 68.92mm, inducer is 48.79, trim = 50, and blade tip width is ~4.9mm. Versus a similar wheel with only 7 full blades, this would impart more energy to the flow via splitters, giving higher pressure ratio capability. 14 full blades would tend to reduce flow area enough to limit flow range significantly, especially with these old thick blades. Looks like it has some backwards curvature which will provide greater flow range, moving the surge line to the left vs. a purely radial blade root. It will also cause peak efficiency to occur at a higher flow rate, towards the choke side.

431905-0004 is another 7+7 wheel, with a slightly larger exducer at 69.98; inducer is 49.53, meaning this is also a 50-trim wheel. Tip width appears to be wider on this one which would match your values given above but it's not explicitly called out so I can't verify.

Wider tip width increases the exit flow area and therefore reduces relative exit velocity. This improves efficiency at lower pressure ratios, i.e. it moves the peak efficiency island downwards on the map. It may also increase peak efficiency since there will be less pressure loss occuring in the wheel. This wheel would be better optimized for a low-boost application. Can't say how much lower since I can't find any maps, but qualitatively anyway.

410299-0004 is again 7+7 and appears similar to 441341-0004, except for the larger 53.47mm inducer making it a 60-trim wheel. This shifts the entire flow range to the right on the map, by a factor of 60/50 (new trim/old trim) = 1.2. Tip width does appear to be wider still, near 6mm. This would be the best of the three for a higher flowing, low boost application.

Low flow / high boost would be best suited to 441341-0002, including high altitude use (therefore high pressure ratio even if boost gage pressure in the manifold is "low").

Somewhere in between would be 431905-0004.

Hope this helps!
 
I just did several searches, but these are all so old that I cannot find performance maps in our systems for any of the above wheels. They were designed in 1978-79 which I know wasn't the dark ages but is prehistoric in terms of compressor aero.

441341-0002 is a "7+7" blade wheel; 7 full blades and 7 splitters (the short stubby ones) for 14 total. Exducer diameter is 68.92mm, inducer is 48.79, trim = 50, and blade tip width is ~4.9mm. Versus a similar wheel with only 7 full blades, this would impart more energy to the flow via splitters, giving higher pressure ratio capability. 14 full blades would tend to reduce flow area enough to limit flow range significantly, especially with these old thick blades. Looks like it has some backwards curvature which will provide greater flow range, moving the surge line to the left vs. a purely radial blade root. It will also cause peak efficiency to occur at a higher flow rate, towards the choke side.

431905-0004 is another 7+7 wheel, with a slightly larger exducer at 69.98; inducer is 49.53, meaning this is also a 50-trim wheel. Tip width appears to be wider on this one which would match your values given above but it's not explicitly called out so I can't verify.

Wider tip width increases the exit flow area and therefore reduces relative exit velocity. This improves efficiency at lower pressure ratios, i.e. it moves the peak efficiency island downwards on the map. It may also increase peak efficiency since there will be less pressure loss occuring in the wheel. This wheel would be better optimized for a low-boost application. Can't say how much lower since I can't find any maps, but qualitatively anyway.

Low flow / high boost would be best suited to 441341-0002, including high altitude use (therefore high pressure ratio even if boost gage pressure in the manifold is "low").

Somewhere in between would be 431905-0004.

Hope this helps!

I did, however, find a map for a wheel very much like 431905-0004 which is coming from a Buick.

1986-1987-buick-tbo348-compressor-map-jpg.46586


It does sound like a good compressor wheel, in theory. The TB0384's were fitted with a 60 trim 409096-0013 I believe, which might be ideal.
 
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Woo, inches.

On another note, time to get my head around the T3 water-cooling lines..... This engine is going in a (what is/was) a K-jet 240, so it wont have radiator plugs for the T3's water cooled lines. Oh I love plumbing....

Tim
 
Stock Volvo hard lines work plug and play with a Volvo cartridge :-)-P), with the Ford cartridge you need to use banjo bolts in m18x1.5. I can't find the pics of how I did it, just drilled the holes in the Volvo line banjo's from 16 to 18 mm with a stepped drill and used M18 bano bolts..
For the rest, just 940 cooling hoses.
 
Doesn't sound too bad - I'll be going all braided high temperature hoses for the oil feed anyway so would make sense to use 940 ones.

$_1.JPG


I'll most likely be using a Ford cartridge, saves on having to buy a Volvo T3, then a Cossie .48 housing, blades, compressor wheels and compressor housing....

Tim
 
I believe America put the first man on the moon using Imperial measurement, so hopefully for those that were taught Imperial, not a lot ;) I know I think and imagine in Imperial. A lot can and has gone wrong when I mentally shift to metric mode :)
 
I believe America put the first man on the moon using Imperial measurement, so hopefully for those that were taught Imperial, not a lot ;) I know I think and imagine in Imperial. A lot can and has gone wrong when I mentally shift to metric mode :)

Sort of ;-)

"With respect to units, the LGC was eclectic. Inside the computer we used metric units, at least in the case of powered-flight navigation and guidance. At the operational level NASA, and especially the astronauts, preferred English units. This meant that before being displayed, altitude and altitude-rate (for example) were calculated from the metric state vector maintained by navigation, and then were converted to feet and ft/sec. It would have felt weird to speak of spacecraft altitude in meters, and both thrust and mass were commonly expressed in pounds. Because part of the point of this paper is to show how things were called in this era of spaceflight, I shall usually express quantities in the units that it would have felt natural to use at the time." Source - http://www.doneyles.com/LM/Tales.html

Even NASA engages in mixed measurement protocols :cool:

Keep up the good work Turbobricks!
 
My car was original fitted with a Garrett T25. For the Cossie T3 I organized coolant hoses like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Water...m58d3a5b5fe:m:m77SXkihFS7ret5nZCL73zQ&vxp=mtr
I remember that I needed a lot of copper washers and also removed some material from a screw at the backplate of the compressor side not to clash. Should have made it like JW240 described above with
drilling out the original banjo?s.
If you want a more power with a little more lag you can take a T34.48 turbo (Sierra hot side, Escort compressor side... see passionford). Don?t know if the compressor side interferes with the exhaust manifold.

https://picload.org/image/wdrcddl/20150617_210514.jpg
 
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