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Old 03-11-2009, 02:37 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Steve940Estate View Post
Yes I hadn't even thought of that. It might be possible to put a spacer behind the sensor.

The enlarged holes on your one might be a problem though. I wonder if it would be possible to glue something light weight into the hole to reduce it's size and not effect the balancing much. I was thinking nylon or alloy but there might be too much heat unless you got some really good adhesive.
I had a thread about this about 6 months ago. The consenus was that hole restoration would have to be metal so as to not confuse the sensor. Your idea to space the sensor out an amount equal to the flywheel being spaced out is a good one.

On my soon to be installed M90, I put one washer behind the pivot ball after test fitting the M90, flywheel and clutch assembly to a spare block. 2 washers had the clutch fork pressing against the rubber dust boot in the transmission housing, which in turn pressed the release bearing against the clutch pressure plate a little too firmly to my liking. Also with 2 washers there was not much thread on the stud for the pivot to screw onto.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:06 PM   #152
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I know, just different way of saying. lowest ratio. lowest rpm while cruising.
Ah... yes, I kinda' got that after I made my post. I just didn't change it. I kow what you mean.

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I have just got the flywheel and diesel clutch to go on my car. The only things I forgot about are the flywheel to crank and clutch cover bolts.
The early flywheel has a thinner center on it so I guess I will need the bolts off an early car as well.

Part number for these is 946379.

This number is also listed for non turbo M90 cars, turbo ones should have 978271.

The clutch cover bolts are different as well, can anyone tell me what the differences are.

Thanks
Yes, the dog-dish bolts is what has to be used.

And the M90 was never fitted to NA cars.

Last edited by frpe82; 03-12-2009 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:08 PM   #153
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I had a thread about this about 6 months ago. The consenus was that hole restoration would have to be metal so as to not confuse the sensor. Your idea to space the sensor out an amount equal to the flywheel being spaced out is a good one.

On my soon to be installed M90, I put one washer behind the pivot ball after test fitting the M90, flywheel and clutch assembly to a spare block. 2 washers had the clutch fork pressing against the rubber dust boot in the transmission housing, which in turn pressed the release bearing against the clutch pressure plate a little too firmly to my liking. Also with 2 washers there was not much thread on the stud for the pivot to screw onto.
The clutch setup is hydraulic. It will never press too hard on the pressure plate.

And if you were not able to fit two washers behind the pivot ball, then how thick were those washers?
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:12 PM   #154
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I have toyed with the idea if shimming the flywheel out slightly using the shim from an automatic flywheel, but I haven't tried it yet.
Like the others said: It will not get underneath the crank sensor.

You will have to space out the sensor as well.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:28 PM   #155
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You can use any of the bolts for the flywheel to crank. Both the dog-dish bolts and the dual-mass bolts fit just fine.

And the M90 was never fitted to NA cars.
Thanks
I've ordered some new ones to be on the safe side. I thought the longer dual mass bolts would be too long for the crankshaft.
I keep forgetting that non turbo cars didn't get the M90, late ones had the M47 didn't they. That explains why the bolts are the same.

One other question was about the grease used. I have never been sure about using grease on clutch parts. I asked today (when I ordered the bolts) and they only do large quantities and one of the technicians recommended using copper based grease.
Has anyone got any idea what spec the Volvo grease is ?
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:57 PM   #156
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Most new clutches (Sachs anyway) have a bit of grease supplied with them. I used Liqui Moli MoS2 high temperature/high load grease.

I bought the clutch cover bolts at a industrial hardware store, the size is M8x1.25x20mm. Stock is grade 8.8, i got them in 12.9 (thanks for the tip Wagner). That way the in-hex wont strip out as easily.
Flywheel bolts for the dig dish flywheel are M10x1.5X25mm, grade 12.9, make sure you get the right ones, you don't want one (or more) failing.
More sizes and tightening torques in the 740 buildup thread from Wagner.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:47 PM   #157
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Thanks.
I've got a Sachs clutch but no grease, oh well !

I had to order a new rear main oil seal from Volvo so got the bolts as well. They should be ok for what I am doing but the sizes you have listed will no doubt help someone else out.

I should be all set to change the flywheel and clutch, thanks for everyone's help.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:20 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
You can use any of the bolts for the flywheel to crank. Both the dog-dish bolts and the dual-mass bolts fit just fine.
Ding ding ding...wrong

The dual-mass ones are quite a bit longer, as the flywheel is much thicker at this point. You can't get DM ones to clamp a dished flywheel down...and dished flywheel bolts won't make it to the threads when used with DM flywheel. Learned that one the hard way...

cheers

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Old 03-12-2009, 02:24 PM   #159
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Ding ding ding...wrong

The dual-mass ones are quite a bit longer, as the flywheel is much thicker at this point. You can't get DM ones to clamp a dished flywheel down...and dished flywheel bolts won't make it to the threads when used with DM flywheel. Learned that one the hard way...

cheers

James
I am so sorry. That could have gone horribly wrong.

What I was thinking about were the bolts for the flexplate and the dog-dish respectively. I don't know why I wrote that the dual-mass bolts would fit. My head thought one thing and my hands wrote something else.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:37 PM   #160
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No don't worry about it Fredrik. I wasn't completely convinced but as I haven't taken it apart before wasn't sure how deep the threads in the crank were.

I picked up the bolts today along with a new crank seal and copper washers for the drain and fill plugs. I asked about the grease for the clutch splines and Volvo list a PTFE based spray in the consumables catalogue. I didn't bother with the number as thay want a stupid amount of money for it and I will only need the smallest amount.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:00 PM   #161
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question about the oil:

I ordered 2 liter of Volvo Gearbox oil for the M90/M56 etc, p/n 1161645.
On the bottle the part number is "1161645" and: M45/M46/M47, M56, M59, M90 and some mitsu box, up to 1995. Other properties seem to be the same, lowest flowing temp at least -48C etc. (data from the top of my head, maybe M45 wasn't included, but i definitely remember that it said 1995) The can has a new 'design' too (wooohoo!).
Seems to me like its the right oil, or does someone know more about this change?
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:58 PM   #162
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question about the oil:

I ordered 2 liter of Volvo Gearbox oil for the M90/M56 etc, p/n 1161645.
On the bottle the part number is "1161645" and: M45/M46/M47, M56, M59, M90 and some mitsu box, up to 1995. Other properties seem to be the same, lowest flowing temp at least -48C etc. (data from the top of my head, maybe M45 wasn't included, but i definitely remember that it said 1995) The can has a new 'design' too (wooohoo!).
Seems to me like its the right oil, or does someone know more about this change?
Yes, that is the correct one.

I found out about the change just a little while ago as well: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...&postcount=121
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:07 PM   #163
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Hi i have just fitted up a M90 gearbox for the first time in a 240 but cannot get 5th or reverse gears box had been taken apart by a so called gearbox specialist who has gone out of buisness to weld stop ring and a general check im pulling it out tomorrow any ideas whats gone wrong as it had all gears 6x before it went off for rework.

Thanks
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:18 PM   #164
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+1

The 1161423-7 old number has been changed!
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:33 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
Yes, that is the correct one.

I found out about the change just a little while ago as well: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...&postcount=121
yeah, i knew the number changed, but the strange thing is that it says till 1995, and with the old boxes (old canisters said 1994/1995+ and without M4x boxes....).

maybe they discovered (or assumed) that the old boxes can take this stuff as well.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:48 PM   #166
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yeah, i knew the number changed, but the strange thing is that it says till 1995, and with the old boxes (old canisters said 1994/1995+ and without M4x boxes....).
It is because the canister is made for an international market (and the 940's were not sold on the American continent after late 1994 as you know). It is made that way not to confuse people everywhere else.

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maybe they discovered (or assumed) that the old boxes can take this stuff as well.
Yeah. This oil is better and makes the older M4x gearboxes more quiet (but the older boxes will be heavier to shift I think).
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:53 PM   #167
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The clutch setup is hydraulic. It will never press too hard on the pressure plate.

And if you were not able to fit two washers behind the pivot ball, then how thick were those washers?
Whoops, I erred in that post. I just took a look at the M90 and I did use 2 washers. They total about 3mm.

What I meant about the release bearing being pressed against the pressure plate was that when I test assembled everything except the hydraulics, the release fork was angled forward to where it pressed against the front part of the rubber dust cover on the trans case. This in turn pressed the release bearing against the pressure plate release fingers.

I trimmed the rubber dust cover slightly to relieve some pressure. I won't say the release bearing is now forced against the fingers but it is being held against the fingers by the rubber dust cover.

Sorry if I'm not being clear or trying too hard to be clear, long day.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:08 PM   #168
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Keke..s'ok Fred. Kinda comes with the territory occasionally when you're a full-time fact fountain

Ah great...so Volvo now say you can use 10w40, ATF, and now their own gearbox oil in an M4x? I wonder if vinegar is ok too?

cheers

James
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:52 PM   #169
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I put redline heavy duty schock proof gear oil in mine.

It will either **** the bearings or make it way stronger. Hopefully I'll know which within the next month.

Ozworldwide,

not much of the actual gear cluster needs to come apart to to the stopring mod. Some of the selector forks do though. 5th and reverse share a fork. Something is likely binding.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:39 AM   #170
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Fred, where's that whiteblock section you promised?
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:09 AM   #171
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]Thanks for the infomation Captin Bondo i will give it a try today.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:55 PM   #172
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Fred, where's that whiteblock section you promised?
It's coming. Don't worry about it.

Time is not plentiful nowadays.
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:53 PM   #173
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I've been busy fitting my dog dish flywheel and diesel clutch. Everything went back together ok but I needed to space the pivot ball by about 4mm. I went for 2mm to start with and the piston was trying to get out of the slave cylinder. Another 2 washers and it seems ok and the clutch starts biting 1/3 of the way up.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:12 PM   #174
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I was talking to Mr. Borrie about his M90, and we talked about the Pilot Bearing ( toplager ), I haven't read anything about it here in this thread.

But I know for sure the M46/M47 pilotbearing is too small. And the M90 one for sure is different !!
I measured it;
Inside diameter for the M46 bearing; 14.95 mm, Inside diameter for the M90 one; 15.12mm doesn't seem to be much of a difference but, there is a difference.



Just for reference, this is a M46 pilotbearing (for me too check if I'm using the correct word).

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Old 03-15-2009, 12:39 PM   #175
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M90 has no pilot bearing, there is just a dummy-bearing (solid metal bushing) in the crank to center the clutch alignment tool in. I don't know the dimensions of that dummy bearing.
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