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Old 03-18-2009, 05:18 PM   #201
Steve940Estate
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Thanks for that, I'm no expert reading the parts lists and there are lots of notes ! I might have got there in the end but it would have taken a while.

I used to have a Lockheed catalogue that listed bore sizes for clutch and brake hydraulics, could have had a look in that to see whats what. Not sure where it is now since I moved house.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:30 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
8601785 (1330248) is the only master cylinder for the M90 gearbox.

6814719 is the only master cylinder for the M46/M47 gearbox.

And...

6843913 is the only slave cylinder for the M90 gearbox.

6843914 is the only slave cylinder for the M46/M47 gearbox.
I can compare the last 2 as I have both.

Both pedal boxes I have have the plastic clutch pedal.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:46 PM   #203
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I can compare the last 2 as I have both.

Both pedal boxes I have have the plastic clutch pedal.
I would also like to make a qualified guess here...

Since the master cylinders are different, the rods for them might also be of different lengths. That might also mean that the pedal boxes for both types are not fully compatible when it comes to the position and pedal stroke.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:58 PM   #204
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If it helps I can measure the length of the rods I have and the bore size as well. As far as I know they are correct for a car fitted with an M90. Will have to be tomorrow now though as it's late here.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:05 PM   #205
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If it helps I can measure the length of the rods I have and the bore size as well. As far as I know they are correct for a car fitted with an M90. Will have to be tomorrow now though as it's late here.
I am thinking of the pedals as well. Specifically these points:

* Where the position of the hole is on the pedal in relation to the master cylinder (distance from the master cylinder and the angle).
* Where the hole for the rod is on the pedal in the relation to the axle on the pedal box.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:25 PM   #206
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I have a 240 master cylinder and a 700 series slave cylinder on my M90, everything engages/disengages as it should.

I wouldn't over complicate this part. Match the master cylinder to the pedal box and call it a day (in other words if your car already had an M46 and hydraulic clutch, I would try leaving the hydraulic components as-is.)
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:13 PM   #207
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So it's probably a good idea to exchange M46 for M90 parts ?? hmmm
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:46 PM   #208
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No I am saying don't change them.
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:12 AM   #209
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Probably better to try what you have as the standard set up doesn't seem perfect. You might end up with something better.
My pedal was sitting about 20mm higher than the brake which isn't much, just meant you had to lift your foot at a strange angle to get on the pedal. Unless I have the wrong master cylinder I guess all 940's with M90 are the same.


I have been measuring. I can't get in to measure the slave cylinder bore very well but the other dimensions are accurate.

M90 Master Cylinder

Bore - 19mm
Pin (measured from pivot pin center to face of the stop) - 95mm

Slave Cylinder

Bore - 23mm
Pin (overall length) - 80mm

Last edited by Steve940Estate; 03-19-2009 at 07:08 AM..
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:54 AM   #210
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I'm off to the shop, and have 2 complete hydraulic set-ups in car, so I guess I'll get them out of the car and check it out.

If they look the same, I'll keep the M46 one. (because thats what's in the car where the M90 is going in already).

I'll report back tonight, hope I don't forget to make some pictures.
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:31 AM   #211
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I have 3 slaves and they all have the same part number. One came on the M90 I have.

I have 2 clutch pedals and they look the same although one has a ribbed foot pad and the other has a 3-block foot pad.

I should measure the slave pushrods, though. 2 have plastic pads where they contact the clutch release fork. The other (which appears new) has a one-piece shiny metal pushrod.

Last edited by SteveMD; 03-19-2009 at 07:35 PM.. Reason: Deleted inaccurate statement about pedal box(es)
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:50 AM   #212
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I had a look to, and both the master & slave cylinders have the same partnumber FAG6472 & FAG3592 or something like that. I'll take some pictures later.

To me it all looks like the same stuff.

I compared between a '85 740 Turbo & '96 940 LPT.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:01 PM   #213
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that's good news!
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:02 PM   #214
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Do you guys like making life hard for yourselves...? It's almost like you take some sort of perverse pleasure in making one of the easiest and most elegant swaps you can do for our cars as complex as possible!

We fitted the M90 setup to an M46 car (with the dished flywheel and diesel clutch), and it just worked. At first, the pedal was super-heavy, as we didn't have an M90 fork, and didn't realise they were different. Once we fixed that, it's been no trouble at all. That, again, is a 300k mile old 1995 M90L (worst version?)...it's tight as a drum...and I believe I might be right in saying it's in the most powerful redblock M90 equipped car on the board...at least among regulars...?

cheers

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Old 03-20-2009, 05:37 AM   #215
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and I believe I might be right in saying it's in the most powerful redblock M90 equipped car on the board...at least among regulars...?
Too bad I never got a dyno sheet of my car then... It might have beaten it.

How much did the car make?
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:30 AM   #216
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Does anyone know the torque value for the pressure plate hex-head bolts? I have 3 different aftermarket workshop manuals and none list it. Flywheel bolts are 70nm, right?
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:58 AM   #217
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Quote:
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Does anyone know the torque value for the pressure plate hex-head bolts? I have 3 different aftermarket workshop manuals and none list it. Flywheel bolts are 70nm, right?
pressure plate in-hex are M8, should be torqued to 25NM. flywheel 70NM sounds familiar.
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:07 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW240 View Post
pressure plate in-hex are M8, should be torqued to 25NM. flywheel 70NM sounds familiar.
Thanks, JW. Likewise for the correction that they are in-hex.
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:07 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foggyjames View Post
Do you guys like making life hard for yourselves...?
Dutch people like to overcomplicate things you know
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:58 PM   #220
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Think it was me that started it, I was born in England though !
My car is fine with this setup it's just the pedal height I didn't like. It was like it before and is just down to the stop on the master cylinder being where it is.
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:26 PM   #221
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Aww...I was hoping more people would bite

It made 295lbft / 276bhp @ 4800rpm (misfire...bad injector) @ 20psi. I reckon that puts it over 300 by redline if it was making power up there...and who knows where with 30psi. We only get bragging rights because there aren't many tuned cars with M90s on the board

cheers

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Old 03-20-2009, 05:06 PM   #222
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I swapped in the manual pedals this afternoon. In a '94 940 all you need are the manual pedals with their through-bolts and return springs as the bracket that holds the ABS computer also serves as the left side bracket for the clutch pedal. Of course, the fricking ABS computer has to come out of the bracket in order to expose the hole for the pedal through-bolt. Due to close quarters, the ABS computer, wire bundles, and awkward position, getting the manual pedals swapped in took about 3 hours and some cursing.

I'm going to take another look at the auto tranny brake pedal as it might be possible to leave it in with some trimming. If that's the case then all a 940 owner would need is the clutch pedal with through bolt and return spring plus clutch hydraulics.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:31 PM   #223
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Just wondering about running my M90L2 gearbox in the Amazon.
I am thinking of standing my B230 type engine up vertical in it. That causes a few issues with the engine I can see. I cannot see any issues with the gearbox 12 degrees round. The slave cylinder comes about level with the bottom of the gearbox but not below so should be ok.
I have not taken an M90 to bits to see if there would be anything internal affected by doing this.

I would need to park the car at 12 degrees from flat to check the oil in the gearbox but that is the only issue I can see.

Edit: Obviously there will also besome metalwork to make it fit.


Any input from anyone?

Rob
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Old 03-27-2009, 05:23 AM   #224
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Sounds like an interesting idea. I don't think M90's have oil pumps in them like Rover SD1's so as long as whatever flings the oil about can do it's work it should be ok. When I put my oil in I did it out of the car, makes life easy and put in the correct amount.

The gear linkages is pretty flexable, you could cut and twist the selector shaft to make the gate more upright if needed but the lever itself bolts to the car.

The only other thing I can think of is the lack of a speedo drive in the gearbox.
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Old 03-27-2009, 05:44 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve940Estate View Post
Sounds like an interesting idea. I don't think M90's have oil pumps in them like Rover SD1's so as long as whatever flings the oil about can do it's work it should be ok. When I put my oil in I did it out of the car, makes life easy and put in the correct amount.

The gear linkages is pretty flexable, you could cut and twist the selector shaft to make the gate more upright if needed but the lever itself bolts to the car.

The only other thing I can think of is the lack of a speedo drive in the gearbox.
I was assuming I would need to make up my own gearshift linkage that was rotated around and maybe shortened or lengthened to get it in the right place.

I might be using a later axle so would have the electronic trigger and could possibly do something with that or I could add a small drive onto the output flange to drive the speedo.
I am sure there would be some figuring out to do. Like you say is not quite as simple as it sounds as the amazon has the long horizontal speedo which I have not looked at to see how it works.

Rob
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