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Old 05-28-2018, 09:55 PM   #1
autoloclys
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Default an incomplete aw71 to m47 swap, a catalog of my failures today

I started what i hoped would be a 1 day swap from auto to manual on my '92 240 wagon today. (I have already installed the pedal box)

Of course everything took 3 times what i estimated it and I needed way more ratchet extensions than i planned for (good thing i did it at work)

I had to abort the mission before i finished since it was getting dark, but I have questions about some issues i am encountering

-i neglected to install a new pilot bearing (i have one, just missed a step) but got the trans mounted. I am assuming whatever the engine has instead of a pilot bearing wont last long with a manual trans and that i need to retrace my steps and pull the m47 back out and solve this? Hopefully i didnt smash anything and cause myself more work? Does the thingy come out easily or will I need special tools/techniques?

-I purchased a new release bearing, but it does not play well with the clutch fork in the trans, it has metal ears that prevent it from pushing on the fork, and they are too big to push it in sideways and twist on. I have the one on the right in this pic fro an IPD kit, (i didnt buy the kit). The one on the trans seems smooth and in good shape, so this might not matter much.

-I have both an 47 cross member and the original cross member and neither of them seem particularly happy with the location of the rear trans rubber mount. I can get 1 bolt to seat on either side but only if i spud one of the holes with a screwdriver and torque the bejeezus out of it to line up the holes. The screws i have only fit in the holes originally used for the aw71, the set that is further forward is something odd, M7 maybe, none of the common metric sizes in the hardware cabinets at work fit. I was expecting that the crossmember would shift a hole as part of the swap. Am i missing something about where things should line up?

-There is not an obvious spot to hang the rear end of the clutch return spring, i cant find any helpful pics online. all the parts diagrams just show the spring and not where it attached to the trans body.

-I lost one of the nuts for the downpipe, but thats on me to solve

thanks in advance for the help!

Last edited by autoloclys; 05-28-2018 at 10:06 PM.. Reason: forgot some stuff
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:22 PM   #2
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Ok so... I swapped auto to T5, BUT... my winter beater was M47 and I used a lot of it's parts (RIP).

I don't recall the pilot bearing situation. I KNOW I put one in... I just can't remember if it was the same as the one from the auto, but you might be fine so long as there's one in there. Truthfully... as much of a pain as it is to drop it again, the risk of destroying your crank or your trans is probably worth it to check.

No idea on your TOB (release bearing) because I went T5 and mine is the same one that was on there. I'd be inclined to say you'll be fine with your stocker thats on there BUT... if you're yanking it again, I guess swap in another?

As far as the X-member. My M47 x-member worked fine for my T5 (this surprised me honestly) but you I assume know there are a few sets of holes fore and aft that you can use? ONE of those sets should line up because that trans is stock obv. If it doesn't line up, check to be sure your motor isn't in an odd position or a mount is busted?

I don't actually think the M47's used the return springs. I think the M46's did. Truthfully, it's a spring. You can put it anyplace that accomplishes it's task.

No idea what your plans are, but if it makes you feel any better... swapping the T5 in is SUPER easy compared to the stock stuff because you can split the bell and the case in situ. WORLDS easier.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:46 PM   #3
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Spring goes from clutch fork to a-hole in the trans cross member. You might have to drill a new a-hole for it.

That centering thing from the automatic flex plate is wrong for your manual trans pilot bearing. For one, it's not a bearing. Also is it even the correct size for the tip of the input shaft?

The other holes should use the same size crossmember bolts. It all should bolt in. A correct factory 240 M47 crossmember has rubber bushings around where the bolts go through the holes to the car frame rails, but that is the only difference. The other m46 ones are the same just no rubber washer thingies.

I'd just bend the metal in the way on the throw out if you use it. Or cut that upper lip off with a cut off wheel. I think you might be able to take that piece of metal off then cut it and put back, not sure.

I find it way easier to spit on a T5 for sure. Yeah custom is always world's easier then bolt in stock. Wow, evil is right, not good.. Ha ha ha ha.
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Last edited by sbabbs; 05-28-2018 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:57 AM   #4
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The auto pilot "bearing" is not a bearing, it's a cylinder of metal with a hole in it. It'll roast either the crank or the trans input shaft (probably both) if you ran it like that very long
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:27 AM   #5
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any tips on removing the "un-bearing" from the auto? does it pull right out or do i need something complicated like a slide hammer?
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:18 AM   #6
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I think I just levered mine out but... you probably "need" something like a slide hammer yes.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:28 AM   #7
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Yes, mine slid right out of the crank where it is seated. Then replace it with the real pilot bearing and remember to install the pilot bearing clip to keep it retained
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by autoloclys View Post
any tips on removing the "un-bearing" from the auto? does it pull right out or do i need something complicated like a slide hammer?
Pack it full of grease. Find object that fits snug into the bushing. Smack said object with hammer. Profit.
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Old 05-29-2018, 01:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by TurboDenny View Post
Pack it full of grease. Find object that fits snug into the bushing. Smack said object with hammer. Profit.
Haha, was going to suggest the same thing. This was all we could get to work.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by TurboDenny View Post
Pack it full of grease. Find object that fits snug into the bushing. Smack said object with hammer. Profit.
3/8" extension, a hammer, and 1-slice of bread. Done. And you get a snack.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:21 PM   #11
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3/8" extension, a hammer, and 1-slice of bread. Done. And you get a snack.
Hydraulic bread... yum.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:45 PM   #12
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update, i pulled the trans and installed the pilot bearing, turns out we have a bearing puller at work which made it easy once i had access. And its much easier to get the manual out than the automatic was. I didnt have time to fuss with the cross member but the motor mounts seem to be about the right shape (not deformed) so its hard to know why it wouldn't be lining up with the bolt holes
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Old 05-30-2018, 01:30 AM   #13
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On the bolt holes... Insert a couple of bolts loosely to hold the crossmember up in place on one side. Use a long screwdriver (either a number 3 or 4 phillips should work) that fits into the M10 bolt holes on the other side, and pry the crossmember forward so you can get a bolt into one of those holes. Remove the screwdriver and insert your other bolt, then tighten them down.

There should be a small hole on the tranny mount bracket that you can hook the spring into. If it's not visible, then drill a small hole into the crossmember near the mount at the front edge to hook the spring into.

-J
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:43 AM   #14
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update, i pulled the trans and installed the pilot bearing, turns out we have a bearing puller at work which made it easy once i had access. And its much easier to get the manual out than the automatic was. I didnt have time to fuss with the cross member but the motor mounts seem to be about the right shape (not deformed) so its hard to know why it wouldn't be lining up with the bolt holes
With the trans out, the motor tends to rock backwards since it's missing it's 3rd mount.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:30 PM   #15
autoloclys
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With some stiff persuasion, a tap to chase threads and some longer bolts i got the crossmember in place!

I found a new challenge on this project though. The driveshaft i have is it turns out the oder style with a more solid mounting bracket that attaches to a flat plate which bolts to the body. My car is a '92 and has the newer big soft bearing support. Is it possible to swap the newer rubber donut onto the older bearing? or transfer the whole assembly?

My bentley manual has no info about the older style bearing holder so i cant even see an obvious way to take it off.

Advice?
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:26 AM   #16
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Sounds like you have a 740 or 940 driveshaft. All 240s use the big rubber donut around the center support bearing.

-J
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:23 AM   #17
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why would one swap to a m47?!! isnt it the only gearbox you can only swap away from !?
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:57 AM   #18
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why would one swap to a m47?!! isnt it the only gearbox you can only swap away from !?
when 90% of the cars here are automatic you take what you can get
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:28 AM   #19
EivlEvo
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The M47 for an NA box in a 240 is fine.

Re the driveshafts. If the ends are correct, and the length is right... I'd think you could put whatever the hell you wanted to in there?

It's just connecting the trans to the diff.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:21 AM   #20
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What you are describing is the 7/9 series support bushing/mount.

If thats on there, chances are that its the wrong driveshaft.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:07 PM   #21
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that it is a 7/9 shaft seems to be the consensus from a few other people. someone offered me the correct front shaft. So to the "for sale" section this one goes!
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:12 PM   #22
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lol
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Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

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Old 05-31-2018, 01:43 PM   #23
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lol
^ lol
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:56 PM   #24
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^lol
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:46 PM   #25
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final update...

I drove the car home today! Thanks to everyone here for help, both on this thread and all the other ones i read over the last few months getting ready, and for selling me parts, months ago and also at the last minute when i got in to trouble. Swapping this transmission was the deepest ive ever been into a car (dropping the engine on a VW beetle is a close second) and it would not have happened without this community.

also, in case someone else turns up this thread searching about similar questions, there is no external return spring needed for the clutch fork, but there is a rubber spacer and retaining washer you are supposed to have on the end of the clutch cable.
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