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Old 05-25-2018, 11:14 AM   #51
klr142
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
Yes John, toot your own horn about how you're right in your own small mind and some Nordic guy proves you right.
Nobody gives a damn about your cranky old opinions or desire to be a pain in the ass. In reality, this is turbobricks, not naturally-aspirated (and barely usable power band) bricks.
Seriously dude? Get the **** out of this forum.

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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
There's a reason my boss lets me (an 18 year old kid) head up restoration projects

I know some stuff and have done some stuff.
Get the **** out. You are definitely an 18 year old kid.

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Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
to be fair, John's trumpeting things that most people that have been here for a while either think or say, and that is "search noob".

We have the internet, the google translate has been good enough for at least a decade for me to figure out what they're getting at on the subjects I've spent time looking for (that's the hard part, figuring out what search terms to use to get the info you want).

The issue at hand is that here, and really across the board, the new generation workforce doesn't actually seem to want to work to learn. They want to be handed things, they don't want to really know the whys and wherefores, just the how, and that's very frustrating to the people that have spent the time and effort to research and try and do.

The end result, at least over the past few years for me, has to just let most of yall writhe in your own filth. If you can't be bothered, why should I be bothered? It's well documented that ideologically me and the agitator are pretty much diametrically opposed when it comes to discussions on the forums, but the reality of it is that we're probably a lot more alike than either of us cares to admit to. In this case he's right.

This dyno test doesn't prove anything really. I kinda wanted it to, but thought that it probably wouldn't because of my past work and tinkering and reading. A number of these subjects that come up have been hashed out at great length even on this forum (rod length comes to mind for a great polarizing discussion), but it takes time and effort to dig that info up, just like it takes time to dig up info on savarturbo if you're not swedish or speak swedish.

To put things in a different frame: how can you draw accurate conclusions from an experiment if you haven't accounted for most/all of the variables?
Is the header worthless?
Is there a problem somewhere else upstream?
What was going on dynamically across the range for the test?
Was it tested without the stub exhaust? What were those results?
Are you sure the cam is actually degreed correctly?
Are you sure the cam isn't worn and skewing results?
Are you sure the springs are still up to the task?

I'm not trying to bust balls, I'm all about some trial and error stuff; but prior art should not be ignored esp if one is attempting to be efficient with their modding (i.e. cheap).

what turbo should I run? how much boost a stock can support? lemme get that stage 47 super turbo cam, it'll add like 80 hp and sound wicked. Why's my car slow? (or, more likely the blissfully ignorant who don't know that their car is woefully under performing for the mods. See also volvospeed)
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by klr142 View Post
Seriously dude? Get the **** out of this forum.

Get the **** out. You are definitely an 18 year old kid.
Hard pass on that one pal.

I most definitely stated that I’m 18 in my post. Unsure of the problem.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:07 PM   #53
klr142
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
Hard pass on that one pal.

I most definitely stated that I’m 18 in my post. Unsure of the problem.
Well, since you don't want to listen to your elders who know what they're talking about, why stick around? Let alone the whole respect thing.

I'll give you one guess........ Attitude
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:10 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by klr142 View Post
Well, since you don't want to listen to your elders who know what they're talking about, why stick around? Let alone the whole respect thing.

I'll give you one guess........ Attitude
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren’t complete jack off’s and jerks.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:18 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren’t complete jack off’s and jerks.
Kid, you haven't been alive long enough to understand the past history of personalities on this board. The young generation is oh so sensitive when it comes to perceived attacks. John wasn't attacking anyone. Don't like what someone is saying? Ignore it or report it.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:25 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren’t complete jack off’s and jerks.
Your definition of listening is different than mine. I'm only acting like a jerk because YOU are acting like a jerk. And yes, John has a way with typing on the forum. He's a great guy, too! An unbelievable amount of tangible experiences with that guy...
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:48 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren’t complete jack off’s and jerks.
The problem here is that you have your head shoved so far up your own ass that you swear you can see the light at the other end.

In other words:



In other other words...
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:53 PM   #58
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Wow this got messy. While I won't say that this video proved anything NEW, I appreciate the fact that someone is trying to approach this in a somewhat scientific manner: hypothesize, experiment, conclude. As I stated earlier in this thread, this PARTICULAR header didn't do anything for this engine, but one properly sized (length and diameter) would have made measureable gains. It's the reason I'm going through the rather extensive amount of work to build my own.

It's a small community. I'm not really sure why there's so much dick swinging here. These engines, except in the most extreme cases, will never make huge power. Some guys have LOTS of experience with them (not me) and probably just get frustrated repeating themselves over and over when people talk about increasing hp/tq. I get that. What I was willing to accept in my 20's to that end (wires all over the place, stuff incomplete but functional, crap driveability, etc) is totally different to what I'm willing to accept 25 years later, and yes, I think that the way I want to do things now is better, but it takes a hell of a lot longer. The impetuousness of youth, I guess.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. As long as you're happy with it, cool. If I can help you, I will.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:15 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by mikep View Post
So the English answer, on the english-speaking forum, is "no".
But it seems we are having that discussion, so we have that going for us.
Thank you for the link, and thank you google, for improving translation. The last time I tried to use any translation software on swedish, it was useless.
Yeah there has been Mike..runner volume.. I can't count how many times that's been discussed.

And yes translations software for the normal slangy tech-nerd and always sarcastic way that Swedes talk to each-other --useless>
That's why I have always done word-for-word translations line by line and underneath to help show just how near the languages are and how many cognates and near-cognates there are.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:30 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
There's a reason my boss lets me (an 18 year old kid) head up restoration projects

I know some stuff and have done some stuff.
Kid, there may be a reason..You may not like it.

have you noticed your boss wearing something like this?
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:34 AM   #61
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The finger on mine points straight up.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:47 PM   #62
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I always love reading threads with John in it...makes for very entertaining late nights.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:40 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
Yes John, toot your own horn about how you're right in your own small mind and some Nordic guy proves you right.
Nobody gives a damn about your cranky old opinions or desire to be a pain in the ass. In reality, this is turbobricks, not naturally-aspirated (and barely usable power band) bricks.

Moderators, my apologies for opening up this pile up. I'll return to my prior state.
False. A LOT of us on this forum respect John's opinion and knowledge. He definitely has a way with words when it comes to posting, (nothing but love for you John V,) but if you take the time to actually pay attention to what he is saying, you'll learn a TON from him.

Look man, you're young, we get it. We all were at one point or another. But you'll learn a hell of a lot more, and be miles ahead if you can remove your cranium from your anus and listen to those who have already been down the path many times, probably before you were even conceived.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:45 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by vwbusman66 View Post
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren’t complete jack off’s and jerks.
: he says in reference to one of the board members who has realistically some of THE most tangible experience levels in this community, while saying it TO a board member who has a fair amount himself.

You're not doing yourself any favors here bud. Maybe you'd be better off hanging out on the TB group on Facebook? They seem to be more your speed, (at least until the Eric gets ahold of a seriously idiotic/derailed thread and lays the smack down.)
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Old 06-01-2018, 07:45 PM   #65
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If the intake is so bad, why not buy a $500 KL racing intake manifold?
https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar...m-spjall-.html
I bet that helps a ton over the original design.
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Seems like the TB [performance mod] list is normally:
#1: Cut springs
#2: Junkyard +T
#3: Gut the interior
#4: ???
#5: Crush it
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:38 PM   #66
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https://youtu.be/soxSaJNMq_E

He slapped a ported 531 head on that was shaved 2.5mm and had a Timos 13.10 cam in it. 171whp and 155lb-ft of torque.

I want to see the AFR, because that powerband under 4500 when it comes “on cam” looks like total crap. It may be legit, but I wonder. Still using the B230 intake manifold!

I also wonder what it would look like with the K cam back in it...

Last edited by klr142; 06-09-2018 at 08:47 PM..
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:16 AM   #67
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It may be related to the fact that he's using forum lore to time the cam rather than going with a mm lift at TDC spec.
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Old 06-11-2018, 11:19 AM   #68
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Hey guys whats going on
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Old 06-11-2018, 11:25 AM   #69
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Hey guys whats going on
TDC your cam correctly and the powerband should be way better.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:03 PM   #70
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Could be that the header and cam are well matched and it's like flipping a switch. I want to see it run with the factory exhaust back on it.

I guess the factory intakes aren't soooo bad...
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
Could be that the header and cam are well matched and it's like flipping a switch. I want to see it run with the factory exhaust back on it.

I guess the factory intakes aren't soooo bad...
I'd hold off on that until a decent intake manifold goes in.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:38 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
I'd hold off on that until a decent intake manifold goes in.
Allow me to rephrase:

Perhaps factory intake manifolds perform better than the internet speculates, with no scientific research.

Not saying you can't do better, but 171 at the wheel is pretty fair.
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Old 06-11-2018, 11:47 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
It may be related to the fact that he's using forum lore to time the cam rather than going with a mm lift at TDC spec.
He did say he tried another setting but I don’t know if ignition was the wrong direction or just not right. Timos Motor dynoed this cam at 213hp with Lh2.4, and I’m not sure what intake it used but it was with larger valves.
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Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
Allow me to rephrase:

Perhaps factory intake manifolds perform better than the internet speculates, with no scientific research.

Not saying you can't do better, but 171 at the wheel is pretty fair.
171whp is indeed fair, but the B230 intake manifold is definitely not good. This thing should wake up nicely with a different intake manifold and some more camshaft timing tweaking.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:54 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
Allow me to rephrase:

Perhaps factory intake manifolds perform better than the internet speculates, with no scientific research.

Not saying you can't do better, but 171 at the wheel is pretty fair.
Not really. Some of us test these things, some do these things. It has been discussed ad-nauseum on the swedish forums, and their findings and results back up other independent tests. It is a choke point. is it THE choke point? opinions vary. Are we talking NA? then yes, and if dyno test dude would post a datalog of one of the pulls I have a feeling things could be learned.

But it seems they're more interested in HAWT TAEKS and VIEWS BRAH (dramatic overstatement) than looking at all of the data available. To be clear, I'm not looking for some sort of smoking gun in the log to prove/disprove the dyno, it's doubtful such would even be in the log in the first place, and at any rate, I don't have that kind of axe to grind. Not all that many people on this side of the pond mess with NA stuff and post about it, and I'm curious.

The power is fine, even if the dyno is high by 10whp or 10% or hell even 20% it's still making good power. It's also right around where the stock intake maxed out on the flow bench.
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:10 AM   #75
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looking on some dynonumbers from some swedish guys and i even saw those cars in natura some days in vallkokra, the 8v Intake cant be that bad.. looking at the 16v intake: just watch the hedberg 740 video, it cant be that bad either..

but that is for turbocars... long runners for upper rpm carnage.. ITBs.. who knows..
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