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Old 04-30-2015, 02:02 PM   #101
Stiggy Pop
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Yeah a Hall sensor with the adapter is kind of my fallback plan at this point.

My stock sensor worked perfect with my ms2, NEVER had an issue. Part of the reason I'm stubborn to get it to work on the ostensibly "better" microsquirt circuit.
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:07 PM   #102
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Haven't had any issues with the stock one once I put the resistor in, plus I need to be able to fall back to lh for smog, at least until I can get a cel setup working in MS. Hmm....wonder if Kenny can do that when I send it back to him....
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:04 PM   #103
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Seems like ill be going through the same process making the VR sensor work expect im dealing with lh2.2 and moving over to microsquirt V3 w/wasted spark.Shall be a interesting journey,b280 prv 780 w/gt45 turbo.Looking at getting my sensors ordered this week then hopefully have it up and running.

Wondering if id have better luck making a stock lh2.4 VR sensor work vs the lh2.2 one?
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:40 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
, at least until I can get a cel setup working in MS. Hmm....wonder if Kenny can do that when I send it back to him....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it only needs to show a CEL when the ignition is on and the engine is not running.

You could just wire the CEL into a low pressure oil switch. The stock 240 oil pressure sender has this option.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:58 PM   #105
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LH2.2 is dead simple. It uses a hall sensor in the distributor for the primary input. The high tooth count VR sensor is a totally different animal.

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Originally Posted by BIGsBY View Post
Seems like ill be going through the same process making the VR sensor work expect im dealing with lh2.2 and moving over to microsquirt V3 w/wasted spark.Shall be a interesting journey,b280 prv 780 w/gt45 turbo.Looking at getting my sensors ordered this week then hopefully have it up and running.

Wondering if id have better luck making a stock lh2.4 VR sensor work vs the lh2.2 one?
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Old 05-08-2015, 09:27 PM   #106
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I'm ditching the distributor and going with a accel v6 coil pack along with the 960 igniter and tps.Already have the tps adapted to the old style throttle body.Got most of my wires and connectors sorted.Just need to wait for the rest of the parts to show up.

Also from when i put a new cap and rotor on the car the dizzy was gutless nothing inside of it unlike a b230 lh2.2 dizzy.I forget what exactly type of ****ery the b280 uses for its ignition timing/sensors to be exact but it sure ain't the dizzy.
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Old 05-08-2015, 11:49 PM   #107
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Does anyone here have an oscilloscope and is running Microsquirt V3 with the stock sensor? I'm curious what the VR+/- signals look like at cranking/idle/high rpm, and what resistors or jumpers, if any, you've added. After looking at the datasheet for the VR chip in Microsquirt V3 (MAX9926), it looks like it expects +/- 2.5volts max input swing. I want to see what some typical waveforms actually look like for the stock Volvo VR sensor. I think soldering across the internal Microsquirt jumper will reduce the signal levels by 5x.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:18 AM   #108
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Bobxyz, I don't have a scope. But I'm pretty close to you if you want to plug into my car.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:53 AM   #109
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Sure, if I remember this thread correctly, you've found the magic formula for your setup and your engine is now running fine (but StiggyPop is still having problems). Since this weekend sux, rain-to-snow (really?), maybe wait for a warm&sunny weekend. If we do it here, I can bring out my nice scope as long as it doesn't get anywhere near the spark wires.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:07 PM   #110
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The way I understand it the higher the tooth count/rpm, the higher the voltage produced by the sensor.
I have read reportedly as much as 100volts! The high voltage overwhelms the conditioner.
This level needs to be reduced without going below the noise threshold and without attenuating it so much starting is a problem.
The inline resistor lowers output.
The shunt resistor (besides lowering output) knocks down noise, since noise will have a much lower potential than the actual signal voltage.
Finding a balance between the two resistances I believe will produce success.

That said, all of this grief has been put in motion by the perceived need to be able to go back to LH. (keeping the 60-1 wheel)
In Oregon for sure and possibly other states this may not be necessary.
I have passed a turbo 760 through Oregon smog, a pre OBD2 model with the Squirt laying on the floor in plain sight and a laptop open with TS running during the inspection.
1996 is when the OBD2 spec began enforcement.
Pre OBD2 cars just need to have a cat installed (checked with a mirror), Fuel filler must not be punched out, and idle emissions must pass spec.

You have options, you can modify your wheel (removing teeth) or you can install a 36-1 on the front of the motor and leave the LH wheel intact.
Or you can muddle through the resistor thing in hopes of finding success.

I am not certain there is a set value that will work in all instances. If so it would likely have been engineered into the uS.

Perhaps (2) 10k pots in a shielded enclosure and a scope or butt dyno may be the quickest route to success?

I also think that for a couple of bucks saved the MicroSquirt is not the best choice, as a MS2 on a v3.0 board can be custom built to the spec needed for most any 4 cyl install.

Last edited by Dirty Rick; 05-09-2015 at 02:31 PM..
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Old 05-10-2015, 06:43 PM   #111
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Mine's actually been fine, haven't done anything but it's started several dozen times and done 250 miles without any problems and I always have a laptop running to check, have done 6,900rpm. Just gonna keep driving it.
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Old 05-14-2015, 01:07 AM   #112
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I have a followup question for qwkswede and StiggyPop, as a conclusion to this thread since you're both running ok now, can you post your final working setup details here for future reference?

- Specific engine and VR sensor
- Microsquirt V3 wiring connections for VR+/VR- signals, shielded cable?
- Internal modifications to Microsquirt - VR shunt resistor pads soldered across? extra resistors added? (where&value)
- External harness modifications - any extra resistor(s) added?
- TunerStudio configuration - wheel type, ignition input capture edge, Tooth#1 angle (for reference only, will vary by install)
- Engine starts OK? and Revs to ??? rpm OK?
- No other lingering issues/concerns?

Thanks,
Bob
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Old 05-14-2015, 01:10 PM   #113
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I'll have to dig into the details in Tunerstudio, I'll get back to you.

Here are my hardware details:
-1992 B230F with probably the original VR sensor reading the automatic flex plate tone ring.
-Added 2200 ohm shunt between pins 32 and 33 on the back of the board, and de-soldered the built in 25000 ohm shunt.

Microsquirt VR1(+) ===> EZK pin 23
Microsquirt VR1(-) ===> EZK pin 10
Microsquirt VR(shield) ===> EZK pin 11

Engine starts great in all conditions. Tested betwee about 20 and 80 degrees F so far.
I rev to about 5700 regularly with no hiccups.
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Old 05-15-2015, 02:22 PM   #114
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Bob, you are great - very thorough! It is good to get this info down for posterity.

- Engine: 1991 b230ft, stock CPS (bougi), picking up a 60-2 notched flat flywheel. 4 d514 coils in wasted spark.
- Wiring: DIY autotune harness with new terminals crimped for stock CPS connector. Twisted shielded pair, wired as follows:
o VR+ > connector pin 1
o VR- > connector pin 2
o Shield > connector pin 3
~ Other end of the shield wire is connected to Sensor Ground on the uS end
- Unmodified, unopened Microsquirt v3
- No resistors in harness
- TS: missing tooth wheel, going high, rising edge, TDC angle I believe was around 85 but I need to go check.
- I see a clean uninterrupted crank signal after 1 or 2 revolutions cranking and have not been experiencing starting issues any longer.
- Revving up to 6,850rpm redline with no issues.

There was a fair bit of trial and error involved in this for me, and I definitely put more thought and time into this aspect of the project than I expected. That said, since I wired the sensor according to the above, I have not had any issues with sync loss driving at any revs, and I really spin the car. I did, initially, have only a couple instances where I had some sync loss during cranking. Mostly it was one time after filling up where I cranked for ~10seconds and it just didn't sync up. I cycled power and it started, and I think that's the last time I had problems starting the car. I haven't changed anything since and I've started the car dozens of times without any issues.

At this point I'm hoping I'm done thinking about it! I still check the logs and figure if I have any more issues during cranking I'll address it as it comes. Few hundred miles of happy operation now, so I'm cautiously optimistic that it's set.
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Old 08-13-2015, 09:20 AM   #115
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Was having a similar issue not able to rev past 3000 rpms. Installed 4700 ohm resistor across the vr+ and vr- on the back of the board and voila. My setup is: volvo 60-2 flexplate, factory cps volvo sensor wired directly to the micro squirt.
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Old 09-07-2015, 01:51 PM   #116
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It was mentioned earlier in this thread about tapping into the EZK vr conditioner circuit. Would you just tie the OPTOIN+ to the conditioner out?

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Old 09-14-2015, 09:37 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwkswede View Post
Bobxyz, I don't have a scope. But I'm pretty close to you if you want to plug into my car.
I want to buy a scope myself here soon. We have one at the shop built into the $14k Snap On scan tool, but I feel like I am walking around with my boss' baby when I am holding the thing.

I want to buy my own scope and learn how to use it well. I found the entry level PicoScope stuff is only $129.

https://www.picotech.com/products/oscilloscope
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:37 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinkie View Post
It was mentioned earlier in this thread about tapping into the EZK vr conditioner circuit. Would you just tie the OPTOIN+ to the conditioner out?

you tie the conditioner output pretty much directly to the processor (forget which port it is off hand, but it was fairly obvious), but that for whatever reason didn't work as well for Redleg and his microsquirt.. since you can't really bypass the conditioner circuit (although, I'm still curious about that). But if you've got an old v2.2 ms board, or even the v3 board, stealing the signal off the ezk is a fantastic option
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:27 PM   #119
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Why are you going into the case? I posted about this almost a year ago, on the fix, without going into the case.
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:38 PM   #120
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that's the case on the ezk box, not the microsquirt box.
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:50 PM   #121
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is there really any reason to explore this path? Seems established they will play nicely together. I've also been curious if I'm the only one running this thing unmodified, no resistors, just straight to the CPS with a happy clean signal. IIRC the people who added resistors wired the sensor with the opposite polarity of mine.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:04 AM   #122
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My current issue is a bogging, or rev-limiter like cut at 4000-5000 rpm. I made a dummy plug from an old lh ecu and have the Micro tied into that. For the ckps I have tied into the ezk plug. With the Micro-squirt install I initially had issues sounding similar to Qwkswede with a rev-limiter at 3000ish rpm. Added a 2.2k resistor across the vr sensor it raised it to 4-5k rpm cutout, then I tried a 1k resistor with the same results. Thought it might be an may be a ignition/distributor issue so I swapped in a dsm coil pack and ignitor with the same results. Kinda pulling my hair out at this point. I also noticed on the logs when this cut out occurs it only shows a sync loss maybe 10% of the time, although if you watch the rpm graph it drops 1000 rpm instantly.
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Old 10-02-2015, 03:43 PM   #123
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Look at my tag under my pic 10k ohms x 2.. Also check the pigtail at both ends of both plugs, 9-10 times the wires are frayed pretty badly at one or both stock plugs to sensor, think of all the times you have plugged and unplugged that sensor..
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:40 PM   #124
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I found the information in this thread useful to solving my problem. I thought I would post my experience here to hopefully pay it forward. First the setup: 1994 B230FT; DIYAutoTune Microsquirt V3.0; LS2 Individual Coils, factory VR sensor. Once the system was together and a base tune developed, I could not get it to rev past 4-4.5k RPM. Felt like a rev limiter. Found that MS was loosing sync. Did some google-fu and surmised that the 60-2 wheel/VR sensor was generating too many volts for the MS at high RPM. First tried two , 10k resistors in parallel, one on each lead. Solved the high RPM sync but made starting very difficult. Then tried a shunt across the VR sensor leads in a value approximate to the resistance of the sensor. Measured the sensor at 180 ohms and installed a shunt of 220 ohms. That seemed to be the magic for me. Engine starts right up and revs as high as I dare without a loss in RPM sync. That's my story. YMMV.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:44 PM   #125
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What a strange irony.
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