home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2018, 02:46 AM   #1
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default B21A Cheap fun NA build.

I'll start at the beginning. Bought a 244 witch was dying slow. Swapped the tired b23 for a t5 with m90. cracked a cylinder wall on
holiday and decided to take a 2jz as next challange. While the build is happening i bought a 242 to drive in the meantime. Made
some mercedes wheels fit on the car and iam driving it now for abbout haf a year. Now while iam waiting on parts i got some time
to put into this one.



The car came with a B21A swapped which is adapted to run LPG. Drives cheap, silent and smooth bud defiantly not fast of fun.
Last week i came across a V cam and decided to put that in.



The cam has more lift but less duration than the original A cam. to my surprise i read that it would lose some mid-range and gain
some top. And guess what, they were right! Car used to pull from 2 to 4.5k and stop there, Now it continues to pull to 5250.

It's equipped with that ****ty manifold with sing stormberg and on top of that a lpg mixer which reduces the inlet diameter even
more. So if iam going to put some time in the engine that'll have to change first. One of the things i have to figure out before i
think of a plan is the compression ratio. I thought these had only abbout 8.5 to 1. While doing some more research it appears to
be only that low in the us. Europe got a higher compression, up to 10.0 to 1.



I know the engine didn't came with the car. So i cant look at the cassis plate witch engine is in. How do i confirm which type of
engine i got? All the machining can be done at work. The easyest way to increase the cr would be by trimming the head, how
much can be removed?

I would like to hear some oppinions abbout this, Already got some side-drafts and would like to bump the cr to abbout 12;1 with a
wild cam and 4>1 exhaust.
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2018, 06:09 AM   #2
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

It seems hard to get the compression to 12:1. Block needs to be decked so the pistons come out 0.3mm and the head milled 2mm. That would give approx 11.83:1 Would it be possible to take 2mm of a 398 head ?
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2018, 06:06 PM   #3
classicswede
Volvo upgrades
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Wales
Default

Pull the head off and make sure you have the flat top pistons and not the dished version first
__________________
http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

classicswede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2018, 06:29 PM   #4
Redwood Chair
K-jet For Life
 
Redwood Chair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: - Stock PSI Or Bust -
Default

Engine code should be in the VIN.
__________________
Raise The Lowered


Image hosted by servimg.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

Redwood Chair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2018, 07:17 PM   #5
hiperfauto
Board Member
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

If the engine part number is 498810 as indicated by the red tag on timing cover (it's stamped on the block above the distributor), the parts catalog says it should have pistons for 91/93 octane fuel which means it should be 8.5:1.
hiperfauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 02:05 AM   #6
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicswede View Post
Pull the head off and make sure you have the flat top pistons and not the dished version first
Looked in there with the endoscope, flat tops walls could have looked better dough

I got a 530 head wich can be milled enough i undersood. Read somewhere that it could take 2.5mm How much have you guys safely removed from a 530/531?
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 02:11 AM   #7
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.slopsma View Post
Looked in there with the endoscope, flat tops walls could have looked better dough

I got a 530 head wich can be milled enough i undersood. Read somewhere that it could take 2.5mm How much have you guys safely removed from a 530/531?

How many km on bottomend...what do you call it onderdelen?
__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 03:21 AM   #8
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Onderdelen, klopt!

I have no idea. The car didn't came with this engine originally. For now iam not going to bother with rebuilding the bottom end. Maybe in the near future search another and rebuild that. Just ordered the GT6 cam, seems like a fun one. about compression, Pistons 0.3 mm above deck and 2.5mm removed from a 530 head should give me a nice piston to head clearance (0.9mm) and a calculated compression round 11.8:1. Hoping someone knows if it's ok to take that much of the head.

The cam profile of the gt6:

VALVE LIFT 12,5
NOCK ANGLE 107°
DURATION IN 312°
DURATION OUT 306°

It seems to be an original design by volvo, wondering what they thought when they made it. If it's to much of a cam to run i'll send my V or A off for a regrind and save this one fore a future project.
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 11:57 AM   #9
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

You can take that much off the head, but you'll need to use a timing belt with one less tooth. The stock timing belt tensioner can't handle that much slack.
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 12:31 PM   #10
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Read about that, ordered the pinto belt. Good to know the head is okay with 2.5. woud like to know what the stock hight is, so I can figure out if it has ever been skimmed before.

Went after the carburettors yesterday. Manifold lines up but had to make a throttle linkage between the solexes. I'll post some pictures of it later.
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 01:26 PM   #11
VB242
Mojo Stealer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

It's 146.1mm in the green book I looked in.
__________________
1980 primer JDM flares franken-242DL, 1989 silver 780 sienna rear spring nivomat delete
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 04:57 AM   #12
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Thanks a lot!.

Got a 530 head. Took it apart and measured the height. It seems to have never been touched
before. Did some port matching on the intake side for the carb manifold. then skimmed it
2.5mm. Was tempted to go to 3 but wouldn't want to risk the head. B21 head gasket fits
nicely. This evening i'll try to put it back together and measure the combustion chamber
volume left over. Thinking about making my own adjustable cam wheel the weekend, anyone
done that already?


c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 03:18 PM   #13
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

I noticed that there's no oil passage cross-over on the head you have (or it got machined off). It's an oval-ish shaped recess that takes the pressurized oil from the block and moves it over to one of the head bolt holes. You'll need to make sure that the block has this recess, or machine/file/drill a clearance pocket for oil flow. Otherwise you will have no oil flow to the cylinder head.

Second head bolt hole on the exhaust side (pics stolen from TB):


culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 11:36 PM   #14
bobxyz
Board Member
 
bobxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Default

The head gaskets have a teardrop cutout around those holes so, even with a machined down block and head, there's still a thin passage the thickness of the gasket between the holes. The 230 blocks have a blind drill between the passages to provide extra space.

For pistons, here's a couple links showing a variety of B21 pistons. You can copy the part number from the 1st link to the 2nd link to find the Mahle specs.
http://www.cvi-automotive.se/en/arti...stonsrings-b21
https://catalog.mahle-aftermarket.com/eu/index.xhtml
bobxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 02:22 AM   #15
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Goodmorning!
It's been quite a weekend. great notice of the oil path. I've looked at it and saw indeed that mine didn't have it, But so did the head that came of. I guess the teardrop in the gasket is enough. When i bought the car the previous owner told me he had swapped the b21A, But when removing the head it turned out to be a B23A ... The head had a left over volume of 41.5cc Wich results in a compression ratio of 12.5:1. Quite a lot for a daily driver. I hope the gt6 cam will make it work on pump 95. The engine runs now with the V cam which has almost zero overlap and gets hot quick. Do any of you guys ever used the gt6?
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 07:35 AM   #16
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Bought a pinto timing chain. Unfortunately mine turns out to have square tooth's and the pinto belt round ones. Anyone knows which ford engine used the square toothed belt?
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 07:48 AM   #17
soclosenotnear
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: summerville, south carolina
Default

You could get a set of round tooth gears from a 92+ car.
soclosenotnear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 08:00 AM   #18
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Good idea. But i'd rather buy a new belt than looking for, and replacing the 3 pulley's.
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 09:19 AM   #19
VB242
Mojo Stealer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.slopsma View Post
Bought a pinto timing chain. Unfortunately mine turns out to have square tooth's and the pinto belt round ones. Anyone knows which ford engine used the square toothed belt?
I thought the pinto timing belt from early 70's 2.0 was square tooth

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...ming+belt,5716
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2018, 01:00 PM   #20
viking20
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Default

I would buy stuff like that from KG in Sweden, at least they used to have the correct belt
You can tell its the a b23 by the "frost"plugs on both sides of the engine. The b21 only have them on one side. The V cam is a good one for a daily , with k-jet it delivered 129/130 hp on the b23. Next up is the K and then the H , the H made 140 engine HP with the b23 in 79 with kjet , wont run at all good with lh 2.4 at idle though.....Both the k and h suffer greatly in low rev ability and economy vs the v , its a more modern profile..... Kind of like a more modern d cam.
viking20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2018, 03:53 AM   #21
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Still waiting for the cam to arrive. Postal services out of Sweden are ****!. I would have bought the
belt from them too but they don't have any direct pay system i got, so i would need to wait for the
bank transfer and shipping which takes at least a week. The car is supposed to go to the track
Sunday morning.

The pinto belt is hard to get in Europe. Our parts supplier had no luck at all. When i decide to
upgrade the exhaust i'll order a few belt's along, Just not enough time now. To solve the problem i
made a bush to go over the tensioner pulley. It allows for enough tension on the belt. While at it
i made the adjustable cam gear.





The next issue is ignition timing. It still has the original point's type ignition, fine for now. Searched
the whole forum but couldn't find any usable info on it. I got the distributor on the ignition tester and
it seems to do 12 centrifugal degrees, all in on 1750 rpm. That would be 24 crank degrees on 3500
engine rpm's. I estimate i need somewhere between the 30 and 36 degrees total advance. That
would leave me with 6-12 degrees idle, which i guess is quite low for this type of cam isn't it?
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 05:44 AM   #22
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default ignition curve

Small update with a lot of happiness! The cam finally arrived Tuesday , When it was in place the Clarence was way to big and the thickest shims would be to thin. Turns out this cam has a bit smaller base circle. Made some 1mm lash caps to solve the issue and it's in place now. Had the first few pops out of it, sounds promising!. Next up is the ignition. Unfortunately no suggestions from this angle, I think iam going for no vacuum, 16 crank degrees centrifugal, with 18 base it should give 34 total. Suggestions are more than welcome!
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2018, 07:54 AM   #23
D.E
tvåförti
 
D.E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mora, Sweden
Default

Pinto engine in Europe usually refers to the SOHC 1.6 - 2.0 liter found in Taunus, Granada, Sierra and Scorpio from the 70’s and 80’s. Not the american Ford Pinto.
__________________
'88 Volvo 245 - B230F, LH2.4, A-cam, 4-2-1 header, de-cat, M47
'83 Volvo 244 - B23A, M46, 48k miles
'64 Ford 17M, '59 Plymouth Custom Suburban, '76 Ford Granada 2.8
D.E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2018, 11:00 AM   #24
c.slopsma
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.E View Post
Pinto engine in Europe usually refers to the SOHC 1.6 - 2.0 liter found in Taunus, Granada, Sierra and Scorpio from the 70’s and 80’s. Not the american Ford Pinto.
Correct, bought a belt of those and they use round teeth, none of them square. The engine is running. Equipped the car with a 7k rev limiter and added an oil catch can to the pcv system. Got the points distributor out to see if i could reduce the mechanical advance. Found quite an easy and adjustable way to do that. I could post some images if there is intrest. It does 11 degrees now. Currently setup as 15 initial and (11x2) mechanical, vacuum removed. No pinging yet. The car needs a tune badly. Installed a wideband an saw it only runs nice at wot. To be continued !
c.slopsma is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.