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Old 04-26-2020, 07:33 PM   #1
wasprip26
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Default 1993 volvo 240 new blower motor only blows center vent

okay i have not posted but a couple of times, but i can not figure this one out.

brand new blower motor i replaced myself before i put all the dash back together i checked the function of the controls and every single valve that redirects the air flow. so the air only blows through the center vents, so i checked all the vents and valves again and everything is good.

1. It has Vacuum to all the valves that redirect air flow!!!!
2. everything worked perfect before the motor stopped working.
3. I took everything apart again to make sure it wasn't something i did.
4. Even with all the ducting removed it still only blows through the center 2 holes where the vents attach.
5. Nothing blocking or restricting air flow.
6. What has me confused is why if it is made to have air blow through the top 2 center holes, 1 hole on each side midway up the back side, and 2 holes on the bottom 1 on each side to blow air to the rear of the car. why is it not blowing air through all the openings?

i have been reading every forum about issues with ac ducting issues and everything says VACUUM is the problem. when i can guarantee it has nothing to do with vacuum.

any help would be appreciated.
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:50 PM   #2
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When you replaced the blower motor did you remove the flaps that the are actuated by the vacuum? Were the reinstalled in the wrong orientation so they do not actuate properly?
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:45 PM   #3
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The ducts I removed but the flaps I did not. Still has factory numbered vacuum hoses and i verified that each flap opens and closes
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:26 AM   #4
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Hmm. When you close off the center vents does the air come out anywhere else?
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasprip26 View Post
okay i have not posted but a couple of times, but i can not figure this one out.

brand new blower motor i replaced myself before i put all the dash back together i checked the function of the controls and every single valve that redirects the air flow. so the air only blows through the center vents, so i checked all the vents and valves again and everything is good.

1. It has Vacuum to all the valves that redirect air flow!!!!
I doubt it. do you mean there are vac lines to every one. or that they are at all at vacuum? if they are all at vacuum, then they have ALL failed at once. UNLIKELY

2. everything worked perfect before the motor stopped working.
3. I took everything apart again to make sure it wasn't something i did.
4. Even with all the ducting removed it still only blows through the center 2 holes where the vents attach.
uh, OK.
5. Nothing blocking or restricting air flow.
6. What has me confused is why if it is made to have air blow through the top 2 center holes, 1 hole on each side midway up the back side, and 2 holes on the bottom 1 on each side to blow air to the rear of the car. why is it not blowing air through all the openings?
because the resting state it just goes to the dash vents, and uses vacuum actuated flappers to send it elsewhere. you could have ****ed up the flappers that are contained in the nautilus like shells that hold the fan blades, it is easy to do. but since you cant get it to the defrost vents you problem is a more basic vacuum problem.
i have been reading every forum about issues with ac ducting issues and everything says VACUUM is the problem. when i can guarantee it has nothing to do with vacuum.

any help would be appreciated.
how are you testing "vacuum"?
Quote:
i have been reading every forum about issues with ac ducting issues and everything says VACUUM is the problem. when i can guarantee it has nothing to do with vacuum.
uh, since vacuum provides power to the ducting flap, I can guarantee it does...


the reason it isn't redirecting air is because the flaps are not moving.
unlikely all have failed at same time.
so answer is flaps are not getting vacuum. test each one with a mighty-vac hand pump or your DSls. each one moves when vac is applied

Are you trying to get the system to redirect flow with engine off?
that won't work, it needs vacuum generated by the engine.
ALL BELOW WITH ENGINE RUNNING:
with engine running, check the vac generated at the port on the manifold with a wet finger.
it sucks your finger to it.
check the same after the one way valve, and ensure it is directed in the right way, you should be able to suck from the engine side, but not blow, and vice versa.
then check it after the vacuum reservoir on right side of center console.
then at hose delivering vacuum to junction block/switch block.
then at the hoses going to each flapper actuator, as dif switches are pushed.
TLDR:
check for vacuum delivered to the switch block from the vacuum reservoir
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:18 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by wasprip26 View Post
The ducts I removed but the flaps I did not. Still has factory numbered vacuum hoses and i verified that each flap opens and closes
but are you getting good vacuum from the reservoir?
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:22 AM   #7
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Does it blow _lots_ of air out the center vents when on high? If not, I'm wondering if the 2 fan wires were somehow swapped, causing the fan to run in reverse and not move much air, or if the fan is bad?
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO240 View Post
Hmm. When you close off the center vents does the air come out anywhere else?
It comes out barely from the other areas. But no were never the same force. When I plug the 2 openings and do not have floor or defrost on its like I turned the switch down from hi to low and air comes out driver and passenger vent. . leaving holes plugged and I press the floor and defrost button its as if nothing comes out.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apachechef View Post
how are you testing "vacuum"?

with gauge and also with redirect switch all springs are present and each and every valve opens and closes.

uh, since vacuum provides power to the ducting flap, I can guarantee it does...


the reason it isn't redirecting air is because the flaps are not moving.
unlikely all have failed at same time.
so answer is flaps are not getting vacuum. test each one with a mighty-vac hand pump or your DSls. each one moves when vac is applied

Such as I press the button for recirculate and the flap at center of fire wall will open and close. I press defrost button and the 2 flaps, you know theres one on each side, same for the floor switch. So as mentioned in my original post NO VACUUM issues

Are you trying to get the system to redirect flow with engine off?

Of course the engine is on how else would there be vacuum in the container at the bottom of a/c box to direct to the switch and then to every single valve to open them up to direct air flow.

So not to sure of any other way that vacuum would get to switch so the flaps will work.


that won't work, it needs vacuum generated by the engine.
ALL BELOW WITH ENGINE RUNNING:
with engine running, check the vac generated at the port on the manifold with a wet finger.
it sucks your finger to it.

No need vacuum gauge tells all at 20lbs

check the same after the one way valve, and ensure it is directed in the right way, you should be able to suck from the engine side, but not blow, and vice versa.

Check valve works perfect

then check it after the vacuum reservoir on right side of center console.

Has vacuum there and at switch and at every valve

then at hose delivering vacuum to junction block/switch block.

Has vacuum

then at the hoses going to each flapper actuator, as dif switches are pushed.

Has vacuum

TLDR:
check for vacuum delivered to the switch block from the vacuum reservoir

I know your being helpful and some spot you mentioned I didn't check initial. But as I mentioned in original post NO issues with vacuum..

Please answer this for me the center vents and driver and passenger vent do not have a flapper with vacuum for them to work it is straight shot to all 4 vents, so why is there no air on driver and passenger vent?


Thank you for detailed check list cause I like to document everything in my work book so now I have a step by step. Cause I checked on engine and on each hose at the flapper
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apachechef View Post
but are you getting good vacuum from the reservoir?
Yes
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:08 PM   #11
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Does it blow _lots_ of air out the center vents when on high? If not, I'm wondering if the 2 fan wires were somehow swapped, causing the fan to run in reverse and not move much air, or if the fan is bad?
It blows tons of air with force and it did not work like that before. I toke everything apart cause I thought tye same except I thought maybe I swapped fan blade. But I didn't, do you know what direction the fan blade should rotate. So i can check if direction is good?
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apachechef View Post
but are you getting good vacuum from the reservoir?
Yes its between 18 and 20 on my gauge
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:17 PM   #13
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This is the fan blade cover and arrow is where air comes out and X's no air comes out
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:18 PM   #14
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How can I post an image
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Old 04-27-2020, 02:13 PM   #15
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Look through Art's great pictures here and compare them to yours: http://cleanflametrap.com/fan.html

(For your sake, I'm hoping that this isn't the issue: http://cleanflametrap.com/fanpix/fan603.jpg)

You should be able to watch the side valves open and close as you push the buttons. I don't think you can see the floor valves easily, but you can see the slotted end of the flap pivot sticking through the side of the snail.
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Old 04-27-2020, 04:39 PM   #16
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.

Last edited by apachechef; 04-27-2020 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 04-27-2020, 04:50 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by wasprip26 View Post
I know your being helpful and some spot you mentioned I didn't check initial. But as I mentioned in original post NO issues with vacuum..

Please answer this for me the center vents and driver and passenger vent do not have a flapper with vacuum for them to work it is straight shot to all 4 vents, so why is there no air on driver and passenger vent?


Thank you for detailed check list cause I like to document everything in my work book so now I have a step by step. Cause I checked on engine and on each hose at the flapper
ok, seems like you see the bellows collapsing and assume the flaps are moving from that?
the flap axles can jam if not centered and free in their holes.
you might have vacuum going to jammed flaps
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Old 04-27-2020, 07:31 PM   #18
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ok, seems like you see the bellows collapsing and assume the flaps are moving from that?
the flap axles can jam if not centered and free in their holes.
you might have vacuum going to jammed flaps
Sorry but as I said they all work the diaphragm compresses accordingly to the button pushed the plastic flap moves freely and completely when engaged. When the button is pressed again the spring that is attached to the flap and diaphragm pulls the diaphragm and flap to the closed position.

This has nothing to do with why the air is only coming out of the center vents. If you have ever done this at all there is no diaphragm vacuum valve or flap in the ducts to the center or rear outlets on the a/c box.

So again I am trying to find out why air only comes out from one area, when it can come out of 2 other areas with no ducting connected.

I'm not to sure why you keep wasting time talking about stuff that now for the THIRD TIME I am saying it again that everything that has to do with vacuum, diaphragm valves, springs, flaps, buttons, hoses, switches, and also there are no cracks any where in the a/c system, no air is leaking from any dealing point and again everything worked PERFECT before the motor went out.


And yes I am a mechanic and yes I own my own mechanic shop and yes I have worked on just about every car on the road and yes I have been doing this since I was 16 and I am going to be 42 this year. And if you don't know the math I have been doing this for 26 years.

So when I say I ALREADY CHECKED AND IT WORKS

That means that I checked and it works. Because it seems you do not know what the definition of that means.

Extremely doubtful but if I put the blades backwards I checked that today by switching the blades and i had to put them back the way they were.

Thank you for your advice
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Old 04-27-2020, 07:55 PM   #19
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I am always willing to go the extra mile, buddy!
Since the 1993 240 has a bunch of one year only parts as it is the only factory r134a system, I ran out to my daily, and tiger sawed the system out of it to show you.



And the air is only coming out here abouts?



but not here?



and if remember correctly, you mentioned you have great vacuum, no disconnected ducts, all working bellows and all working flaps?

hmmm.

Have you checked so they look like this?





And don't look like this?




because if that isn't it, it is narrowed down to you having one of these loose in the system:



or something caught in a duct?




Quote:
Such as I press the button for recirculate and the flap at center of fire wall will open and close. I press defrost button and the 2 flaps, you know theres one on each side, same for the floor switch. So as mentioned in my original post NO VACUUM issues
hmm, i actually did know that, cool huh?


keep us posted!

Last edited by apachechef; 04-27-2020 at 09:12 PM..
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Old 04-28-2020, 02:54 AM   #20
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Have you checked so they look like this?




Careful there... wouldn't want the mods to go all Seinfeld on you!



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Old 04-28-2020, 09:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by wasprip26 View Post
...
Extremely doubtful but if I put the blades backwards I checked that today by switching the blades and i had to put them back the way they were.
...
Incredible! Isn't that about as much work as doing the job over?

Did you, by any chance, power up the motor while you could still see the impellers, just to be sure their direction made sense? All those trying to help you have made every suggestion I could make. Surely a professional such as yourself has sometime in his career run across an electric motor incorrectly assembled where it was built. No reason to be butthurt by our questioning your assertions.
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Old 04-28-2020, 02:34 PM   #22
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This may help - download the "240VENTCONTROLDIAGRAM.JPG" from: https://ozvolvo.org/archive/archive.php

When a button is out, the center and closest-to-button nipples are connected. This means that when all the buttons are out, there is vacuum connected to the recirc flap actuator and to the rear floor duct flap actuators.

Sure seems like a very strange problem.
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Old 04-28-2020, 02:57 PM   #23
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That is the only thing I can think of, motor wired incorrectly from the supplier. Nothing would surprise me these days. The Delphi in tank fuel pumps for Volvos are wired backwards. I took a look at a video I made of a blower motor running 2 weeks ago when I went in to replace a POS VDO motor that had too much shaft play right out of the box. Viewed from the driver's side, the impeller turns clockwise. Obviously, viewed from the passenger side it turns counterclockwise.
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:07 AM   #24
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Careful there... wouldn't want the mods to go all Seinfeld on you!



I thought of the Seinfeld thing too
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:22 AM   #25
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That is the only thing I can think of, motor wired incorrectly from the supplier. Nothing would surprise me these days. The Delphi in tank fuel pumps for Volvos are wired backwards. I took a look at a video I made of a blower motor running 2 weeks ago when I went in to replace a POS VDO motor that had too much shaft play right out of the box. Viewed from the driver's side, the impeller turns clockwise. Obviously, viewed from the passenger side it turns counterclockwise.
Gray impeller on drivers side turns clockwise.
Flipped over impeller or miswired fan.
Tested it out on my naked rig, and it checks out
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