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Old 01-30-2017, 03:09 PM   #51
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I write code too but I'm kind of curious what you mean by "the open source attitude".
The open source evangelists, who think anything closed source is evil and should be purged from the earth.

That said, back in the day, there were tons of counterfeit and ripoff megasquirt solutions, that ranged from an actual improvement, to downright garbage.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:59 PM   #52
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TL;DR: they only dispatch C&Ds when folks try to rip their stuff off (normally the software, as they have no exclusivity claim on the hardware they're using lol)
Makes perfect sense as far as I'm concerned.

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The open source evangelists, who think anything closed source is evil and should be purged from the earth.
I'm down with Open Source but closed source has it's place.

In some places however (operating systems, database servers, languages, browsers), it's the best thing to ever happen.

But a purge? That's a bit much.

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That said, back in the day, there were tons of counterfeit and ripoff megasquirt solutions, that ranged from an actual improvement, to downright garbage.
Sounds like there still are.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:03 PM   #53
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After seeing whats going on with the RusEfi. I think I am going to try and print the gebers at:

http://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbs

and try and find all the electrical components from mouser or something. But I need the gerbers and I need the BOMS!
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:04 PM   #54
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Makes perfect sense as far as I'm concerned.



I'm down with Open Source but closed source has it's place.

In some places however (operating systems, database servers, languages, browsers), it's the best thing to ever happen.

But a purge? That's a bit much.



Sounds like there still are.
I <3 open source.
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:36 PM   #55
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I don't think there is anything stopping you from "improving the hardware".

Until you try to sell it......

Im pretty dang sure you can do anything you want with your own stuff.

The minute you go to market with it you are berkleying wrong. As it should be.
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:21 PM   #56
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I don't think there is anything stopping you from "improving the hardware".

Until you try to sell it...
I was told by people I trust this is not how it works. I have not got any communication from B&G personally and I'd rather not share more details - just say that words "patent infringement" were there. Which brings us to

http://www.google.com/patents/US7313474
http://www.google.com/patents/US7369933
http://www.google.com/patents/US7421329


"The present invention provides an engine controller that is: more cost effective because of its low parts count due to integrated technology; simpler to install because of its generic design and flexible software, allowing it to be used with all models and makes of engines from motorcycles to trucks, even or odd number of cylinders, and regardless of the experience of the end user. The design is also more reliable because of several software algorithms that will be described."

I am definitely not qualified to understand this, but there is an opinion that this is a very vague troll patent.
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:51 PM   #57
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there are opinions on a number of things. if you read all the way, there are a number of other prior arts referenced in the patent(s).

suffice to say, they do not want a bunch of little "sort of different" clones running around with their software on it causing even more problems for the community at large than it brings upon itself by the very nature of what it is. It doesn't really matter what the opinions about it are, without any patent at all, they have no control whatsoever on their stuff... Hate it if you don't like it. the rules are pretty lax, you just don't get to rip it off for free.
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:01 AM   #58
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Hello. This is my first post on this forum, and I'll probably disappear shortly. However I wanted to comment as it will likely answer the stuff above.

The fellow who was looking for gerbers, and BOM, for Frankenso look here.
https://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/cod...enso_rev00.40/

Please note that R0.5 is still in development, and R0.4 is currently the most used version. Development has been slowing as the changes from R0.4 to R0.5 are fairly minor. Also please note that the assembled boards have been much more successful projects. We have had very few people assemble there own boards successfully. Neither of the primary developers at rusEFI have hand built these boards. If you hand assemble please document the effort and update the wiki. We would be happy to see this better documented, but we do not have the pictures, and such to do it ourselves.

I wanted to chime in as I have been personally threatened by Bruce. I do not participate in any kind of clone, either software or hardware. I know others have had similar issues to what I had. In my case, the threats were not C+D, but it was vague claims of patent infringement, even though I do not MFG hardware. It sounded like a C+D was coming, so I stopped e-mailing and the problem seems to have gone away. That was many years ago, and I do not have negative feelings over it. I understand the desire to protect the product. I see Bruce's reactions as normal, and expected for a closed project.

I'm one of the primary developers at rusEFI. I'm a big fan of open source, and do not have any biffs with people who try to make money with closed projects. I have learned allot from open source projects which allows me to learn low level details, and I want to give back to the community which has given me so much. I'm all for people getting stuff out there, and MS has gotten functional systems in the hands of many people, which is great. However just like a mac isn't for everyone, a closed systems is also not for everyone.

In my case I want to do some science experiments, and if these crazy crack pot ideas work, they could have some very important impacts. I don't want the risks of entanglements caused by the MS licencing. So I look for an open system, which will not have those issues.

This thread was about Speeduino, which is also a great effort, and I'm glad to see he's doing some cool stuff. I have offered him advice on how to make things more robust. I hope he does well with his efforts. However I generally feel that for low cost hobby ECU's, that rusEFI has hit the major features that people are looking for in hobby projects.

Also note the rusEFI hardware design intent is posted here, feel free to comment if these specs are missing something. Also if you know how to verify if the intent was upheld, feel free to let me know. I'd really like to see if I was successful in hitting these goals.
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware

Also the history of the board / dirty laundry is here. Feel free to tell me it sucks, and give me specifics. I once got a complaint that the original regulator would not up hold load dumps per ISO blah blah blah. So I made a bunch of changes and I believe it now upholds that ISO specification.
https://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/cod...own_issues.txt

Can anyone tell me when MS changed the IAT resistor from 2.2k to 2.7k? Also can you tell me why it changed? I feel it's important to post this kind of history such that existing hardware can be corrected and verified. This is why I post the known_issues.txt log. It lets people know what is changing, and they can verify if these changes happened to their boards.

I know that davebmw once had some issues with MS. He was not able to post that in MS forums, so he posted his suggestions here.
http://forum.diyefi.org/viewtopic.ph...t=285&start=12

Any how that's enough for a first post. Keep doing cool things.
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Old 02-03-2017, 03:20 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb1gtt View Post
Hello. This is my first post on this forum, and I'll probably disappear shortly. However I wanted to comment as it will likely answer the stuff above.

The fellow who was looking for gerbers, and BOM, for Frankenso look here.
https://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/cod...enso_rev00.40/

Please note that R0.5 is still in development, and R0.4 is currently the most used version. Development has been slowing as the changes from R0.4 to R0.5 are fairly minor. Also please note that the assembled boards have been much more successful projects. We have had very few people assemble there own boards successfully. Neither of the primary developers at rusEFI have hand built these boards. If you hand assemble please document the effort and update the wiki. We would be happy to see this better documented, but we do not have the pictures, and such to do it ourselves.

I wanted to chime in as I have been personally threatened by Bruce. I do not participate in any kind of clone, either software or hardware. I know others have had similar issues to what I had. In my case, the threats were not C+D, but it was vague claims of patent infringement, even though I do not MFG hardware. It sounded like a C+D was coming, so I stopped e-mailing and the problem seems to have gone away. That was many years ago, and I do not have negative feelings over it. I understand the desire to protect the product. I see Bruce's reactions as normal, and expected for a closed project.

I'm one of the primary developers at rusEFI. I'm a big fan of open source, and do not have any biffs with people who try to make money with closed projects. I have learned allot from open source projects which allows me to learn low level details, and I want to give back to the community which has given me so much. I'm all for people getting stuff out there, and MS has gotten functional systems in the hands of many people, which is great. However just like a mac isn't for everyone, a closed systems is also not for everyone.

In my case I want to do some science experiments, and if these crazy crack pot ideas work, they could have some very important impacts. I don't want the risks of entanglements caused by the MS licencing. So I look for an open system, which will not have those issues.

This thread was about Speeduino, which is also a great effort, and I'm glad to see he's doing some cool stuff. I have offered him advice on how to make things more robust. I hope he does well with his efforts. However I generally feel that for low cost hobby ECU's, that rusEFI has hit the major features that people are looking for in hobby projects.

Also note the rusEFI hardware design intent is posted here, feel free to comment if these specs are missing something. Also if you know how to verify if the intent was upheld, feel free to let me know. I'd really like to see if I was successful in hitting these goals.
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware

Also the history of the board / dirty laundry is here. Feel free to tell me it sucks, and give me specifics. I once got a complaint that the original regulator would not up hold load dumps per ISO blah blah blah. So I made a bunch of changes and I believe it now upholds that ISO specification.
https://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/cod...own_issues.txt

Can anyone tell me when MS changed the IAT resistor from 2.2k to 2.7k? Also can you tell me why it changed? I feel it's important to post this kind of history such that existing hardware can be corrected and verified. This is why I post the known_issues.txt log. It lets people know what is changing, and they can verify if these changes happened to their boards.

I know that davebmw once had some issues with MS. He was not able to post that in MS forums, so he posted his suggestions here.
http://forum.diyefi.org/viewtopic.ph...t=285&start=12

Any how that's enough for a first post. Keep doing cool things.
This is cool, after reading everything about ruseefi. I think I want to put together a speeduino. and then when i run into limitations then upgrade to a rusefi. The idea is to show my students about electronics and engines. In a sort of scientific way. I first need to look and compare the costs and difficultt of putting the boards together.

Thanks for the BOM and the Gerbers for the frankenso. I looked at it. I wouldnt be able to put it together.

I think someone should go to every forum on the web come up with a list of group buys or start a kickstarter and have some chinese company print and assemble these complex boards for a really low price.

Does that exist? I havent been able to find a RusEfi for less than 400 dollars which is more than the ms....

I may be wrong or didnt look hard enough.

Let me know if there is better assembled frankedenso boards out there
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:07 PM   #60
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The idea is to show my students about electronics and engines. In a sort of scientific way.
Tell me more about your students and the available teaching time. MS is a well proven and refined product, especially for the most basic "squirt and spark" setups. There's a huge amount of teaching opportunities here. For instance, demonstrate and log the results of varying any of the different terms in the Fueling Equation - http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mfuel.htm#equation

I'm worried that while speeduino (fka kartduino) is built off of the more familiar Arduino environment, that the actual ECU development is a few years behind what MS-1 offers.

[Do speeduino or rusefi have standard logging capabilities? MS and FreeEMS certainly do. This would be essential for teaching in a classroom.]

If you'd like to start with a simple setup, but keep the options open for future features, start with an assemble-it-yourself MS II 3.0 PCB, but a cheaper MS 1 CPU chip. Use your existing distributor, coil, and ignition module. You can run either the B&G firmware or the MSextra1 firmware and learn all the basics. In the future, you can upgrade to a MS 2 CPU board to get more features.

[For the rusefi folks - it's great that you're using a lightweight RTOS, especially for open source development with vastly different talent levels. But I gotta say that one of my pet peeves is schematics that use flying/hidden connections -- please take the time to draw every wire, and even list the connecting pages -- everyone, other than the original designer, will thank you for your efforts.]
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:18 PM   #61
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Teaching students you say, looking at the logs you say... Well, rusEfi shows the formulas online via it's "rusefi console" tuning tool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsKoD4tMfOU

As for logging, SD card on the board is there obviously to write the logs. Since rusEfi is compatible with with TunerStudio, you can also write logs with tunerstudio. Or you can write logs with rusEfi console - so three options to write the same .msl/.csv log file.

update: better quality video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKbtZKQFg4I


Last edited by andrey; 02-04-2017 at 09:04 AM..
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:49 PM   #62
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I agree that my schematics are not easiest to read. I generally design semi backwards from what most people are looking for. You may notice my schematics have lots of similarities with the layout. This is because I generally layout the chips, paying very close attention to the current loops, and how current flows on the PCB. I start paying attention to this with the schematic layout.

As well in a 4 layer board design you generally have GND and power as your internal planes, then you punch via's through to these planes at every GND and every +V point. So I do the same in the schematic. Then I layout the wires with minimal antennas, crossed over wires and minimal current loops.

I agree this works well for me, but is not as clear to most of the world. I hope I make it easier than starting a project from scratch, but at the same time I agree it could be better. I was happier with the general arrangement in the below link, but am still not happy with it.

https://sourceforge.net/p/daecu/code...pdf?format=raw

I really want something that includes the system, not just the PCB parts of the schematic. However I do not know of any good system schematic tools.

One of my biff's with tags, is that I don't have a list which tells me where all the other tags are located. I have to do a crtl-F to find them. I have those zone markers on the border, I would really like to get a list of tags which are noted with page and zone. But I have never seen that in any software.

I wish I knew a way to make the schematics more easy to understand. On a good note, a second schematic could be made such that we have an design schematic and a diagnostic schematic. Both could give you the netlist and links to the locations on the PCB. AKA if you click a pin on the schematic, it high-lights the pin in the PCB window.

I'd like to find better solutions. Are there any suggestions on how it could be made better? Keep in mind that a board with 4 layers can become a big pile of spaghetti when drawn on a 2D medium. Spaghetti schematics are not easy to follow either.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:12 AM   #63
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Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the Volvo speeduino thread. kb1gtt - let me setup an account at rusefi and we can continue the schematic vs. layout vs. open source talent level discussion there.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:07 PM   #64
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I'll look for you over there. I agree, this thread has gotten off topic. I don't know much about speeduino. I did a review some time ago and relayed my comments and suggestions to them about how I thought they could make it more robust. As well I pointed them to my list of suggested hardware design requirements, like ambient temperature, load dumps, survivable voltage surging, PCB layout, etc. Because I don't have much more to offer in terms of Speeduino, I'll stop commenting in this thread. Here's hoping it goes well for you.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:41 PM   #65
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Hi...I think these projects seem to loose momentum after they get a few running and realise the flaws require a complete rewrite and or more expensive hardware to fix said flaws.Far too many buy a MicroSquirt and them try to make it do the things a MS2 can do and have a less than stellar experience.

assembly circuit

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Old 07-06-2017, 06:36 PM   #66
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Far too many buy a MicroSquirt and them try to make it do the things a MS2 can do and have a less than stellar experience.
Except that Microsquirt (V3) literally is MS2. You're basically talking about the lack of aptitude of the end user, not the hardware itself. The majority of MS users are pretty much clueless, which leads to a lot of people not admitting their own shortcomings when they get in over their head and pass it off as a hardware issue. That seems to be what you're describing here.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:56 PM   #67
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interested in speeduino...

what a aditional sensors i will need to assemble and run it on my 940 B230 turbo?
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:10 AM   #68
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interested in speeduino...

what a aditional sensors i will need to assemble and run it on my 940 B230 turbo?
Did you read?
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