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Old 09-25-2017, 04:58 AM   #1
chopperead
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Default More fuel needed ???

Hi guys,

So quick query if i may.

So i have just changed to Sams chips, 3 inch exhaust, 3 inch intercooler pipes, 3 inch ebay intercooler, standard MAF into 3 inch alloy pipe, Cosworth T3 turbo.

I havent yet done anything with injectors or Fuel Pressure regulator but is next on my list.

So started for the first time since changing the above and its initially quite hard to get started you can tell that the mixture isnt quite right, the low down rev is very boggy, 2500 revs pretty ok but as soon as it drops it bogs and stalls or if im quick enough it will bog then get back up again. Once warmed up it will idle fairly ok

Is this normal whilst it re learns or should it run better than this ?

Like i said i am planning on changing fueling but was hoping to run as is on low boost for a bit.
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:59 AM   #2
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your engine is a B200FT? Are the chips specifically made for the B200FT? Or are they made for the B230FT/FK ?
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:28 PM   #3
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The chips are good as I've ran them before on standard set up and with increased boost and there work fine.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:45 PM   #4
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LH doesnt like changes to the intake system.. 3" pipes and so on.. also you need to check whether the AMM maps fits to oyur amm in a bigger pipe.. better use the 012amm with matched map
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:31 AM   #5
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Cant get hold of a 012amm in UK they are like hens teeth.

How do i check my AMM map ?

I have LH2.4 and am just going to try and remember which chips i got as i bought them years ago now.

I havent yet even drove it just started up so will see what happens when i do.
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:59 AM   #6
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Hi
I have the 2ltr engine as well - no problems running with chips etc.
Is this a rebuilt engine starting for first time or a running car that you adding to ?
Reason for asking is whether things like the temp sender in the head & tps are known to be good or not. If it was a running car I would check them to make sure the wiring is still in place.
Same with the IAC - is that known to be good & that the pipework is attached correctly?
As far as I know, LH2.4 does not have much to do until the tps is switched.
Other than the above, I would give LH longer to learn, last I modded mine I turned back from a "test run" because it felt like it was running on three cylinders but was ok by the time I got home - got better every time I used it & is fine now.
Having said all that, if you are still using the yellow fuel injectors I think you will have problems driving it - the green/blue injectors should be alright - I'd look up a few posts about it on here.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:01 AM   #7
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Hi mate, engine was running before with chips and increased boost other than that all standard turbo, exhaust, intake etc.

May get the new injectors in and see whats what.

Ill be back shortly with update hopefully can get this back on the road its only taken 5 years to complete this upgrade :D
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:49 AM   #8
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OK quick update.

Took her for a spin which has done amazing things i cant believe how that first very quick drive up and down the road with a few mild boosts has sorted the car, runs a lot smoother and the following cold start was incredible no assistance needed started and idle excellently.

My AF readings were a little concerning very lean in pretty much all scenarios, have ordered some green giants 440cc and a Sytec adjustable fuel regulator so will get them on and see how it looks after.

Also had a heart attack when plooms of smoke started to come out of the exhaust but it was just the High Temp paint i used on the exhaust which was curing.
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:11 PM   #9
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Ok fitted green giant 968 440cc injectors and adjustable fuel pressure regulator and set pressure at 3.8 bar.

Boost is currently set at 8psi which it holds nice and steady.

AFR reading 14 WOT

AFR sensor is fitted in bottom section of my down pipe with the originally sensor positioned in original top position.

Do I need bigger injectors ?

I have standard fuel pumps which from reading will only supply 3 bar pressure if this is the case how am I getting 3.8 bar on my fuel pressure regulator gauge ?

Do I need to play with the maf to reduce air if that's even possible.

Last edited by chopperead; 10-02-2017 at 07:20 PM..
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Old 10-02-2017, 09:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperead View Post
Ok fitted green giant 968 440cc injectors and adjustable fuel pressure regulator and set pressure at 3.8 bar.

Boost is currently set at 8psi which it holds nice and steady.

AFR reading 14 WOT

AFR sensor is fitted in bottom section of my down pipe with the originally sensor positioned in original top position.

Do I need bigger injectors ?

I have standard fuel pumps which from reading will only supply 3 bar pressure if this is the case how am I getting 3.8 bar on my fuel pressure regulator gauge ?

Do I need to play with the maf to reduce air if that's even possible.
I've read that higher pressure means lower volume. Try lowering the pressure to something like 3.5 or even 3.3 Bar. The injectors may not like the higher pressure.
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:32 AM   #11
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I will try but i had run them with standard FPR which i believe is 3 bar and was getting similar results.

Does fitting the sensor in position its in lean off results ?
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:30 AM   #12
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OK so ive had an idea im gonna try and reduce the air by putting back on the standard air box standard AMM and see what that does.

Any thoughts ?
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperead View Post
Boost is currently set at 8psi which it holds nice and steady.

AFR reading 14 WOT
Nice way to blow up your engine.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:06 PM   #14
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That was the plan

Obviously I get that this isn't right hence why I'm reaching out for some guidance.

I've driven like a mile since doing this and knew nothing of AFR figures until I ventured down this path and after first drive got back and researched what's what.

Guess I'll keep asking and feel free to chime in or ignore.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:58 AM   #15
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I would keep driving it so that LH can learn. Just be careful if you go into boost etc. It may take a few miles for it to settle down.
Tim
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:48 AM   #16
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But im scare that Trybingbe will go ape on me when i come back complaining my engine now dead.

So can i confirm whether i need a better fuel pump or will standard suffice for the minute ?
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9 240 View Post
I would keep driving it so that LH can learn. Just be careful if you go into boost etc. It may take a few miles for it to settle down.
Tim
LH 2.4 can only learn on a narrowband sensor, RICH or LEAN. To LH, 14 is RICH (since it is richer than 14.7). LH cannot learn what it cannot see!!!
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperead View Post
Cant get hold of a 012amm in UK they are like hens teeth.
So, buy one from US. What's the big deal? You bought everything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperead View Post
But im scare that Trybingbe will go ape on me when i come back complaining my engine now dead.

So can i confirm whether i need a better fuel pump or will standard suffice for the minute ?
I'm trying to save your engine.

You don't need better fuel pump at the moment. You need a tune that will work with your setup, and your "sam chips" is obviously not working out.

You have a few options.
1. Buy another tune.
2. Learn to tune it yourself on LH.
3. Go Megasquirt and tune it yourself
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:12 PM   #19
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I appreciate that buddy and thank you for your input.

Would it be an option to increase my injectors currently 440cc so 600cc ?
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperead View Post
I appreciate that buddy and thank you for your input.

Would it be an option to increase my injectors currently 440cc so 600cc ?
Stop throwing parts at it and read about how ECU works first.

ECU operates in two loops, open loop and close loop. Remember that narrow band o2 sensor only works near 14.7 air fuel ratio? Open loop is used when the car is warming up or WOT, in both case, ECU will read RICH from the o2 sensor, so ECU just ignore the o2 reading and use its preset programming. Close loop is when the car is warmed up, ECU will read the o2 sensor and adjust the injectors open time to maintain near 14.7 air/fuel ratio.

There are other factors regarding to injectors, but in short 600CC injectors is 36% bigger than 440CC injectors. In open loop the engine will run 36% richer at all time. Start/warm up and WOT. You will put fuel into the engine oil from running so rich at start/warm up. At WOT and 8psi, you'll be at 14/1.36 = 10.29 afr. Putting excessive gasoline into the oil will wear out the engine since gasoline does not lubricate.

In closed loop, the LH 2.4 might be able to adapt to 600CC injectors.

So, 600CC injectors will cure your WOT at 14AFR issue, but it might bring in other issues.

In summary, get the 012 AMM or 025 AMM first, and see where your car is. Then decide if you need to get tune for your application. In the mean time, don't boost.
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:35 AM   #21
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Just so were clear i put my standard 016 MAF into a 3 inch alloy tube.

I thought others had good results with this setup ?

I will try and grab an 012 and see what happens. May have to grab a non bosch one though otherwise ill be paying £100+ for a second hand which is stupid.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperead View Post
Just so were clear i put my standard 016 MAF into a 3 inch alloy tube.
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/sh...6&postcount=11
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:57 PM   #23
chopperead
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Chinabay 012 AMM arrived and fitted, quick drive down the road and OMG im seeing Green readings on my AFR gauge 10's 11's.

Cheers Tryingbe.

Obviously my homemade AMM sucked.

Cant wait to turn up the boost.
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