home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-25-2017, 11:57 AM   #1
VB242
One hundred gift baskets
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default Are head studs worth it?

I just popped another Elring head gasket yesterday. New bolts last time or maybe the time before that actually. I know what my problem is, it's that I don't have enough fuel for full boost in 3rd gear and not being quick enough letting off the throttle. I plan on rectifying this shortly. But since I'm going to have it apart yet again, are arp studs a worthwhile investment. Plus t'd B21 with k-jet 160 head.
__________________
Bruten tegelsten
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:01 PM   #2
KeizerBrickGuy
Board Member
 
KeizerBrickGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Keizer, OR
Default

In my experience in the EJ20 world ARP studs are worth their weight in gold.
__________________
-Stephen
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87_240TURBO View Post
#mclovethesenuts

-My car: White 1991 244, 308k miles. B230F LH2.4, AW70, R134a retro. Thrush glasspack, anthracite refinished Coronas
-Wife's car: White 1990 244DL, T cam, 160k miles.B230F LH2.4, AW70 w/aux cooler, Duracool AC, purple refinished Virgos, tow hitch, ipd wagon overload springs.
-PSM 2002 Subaru WRX wagon: 120k miles, Perrin TBE, Perrin turbo inlet, intake, and Y-pipe, GrimmSpeed cross pipe.
Rebuilding EJ207 shortblock to swap in this summer.
KeizerBrickGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:07 PM   #3
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

not really, and get an SCP head if yours isn't already.
__________________
"They bum rushed them in their own crib, they drank all their beer, they partied with their ladies and they left with the trophy"

Now with in-house Dyno tuning!

Megasquirt Tuning!
Plug and play LH 2.4 Megasquirt, now with stealth mode!
linuxman51 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:12 PM   #4
esmth
dirty swede
 
esmth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeizerBrickGuy View Post
In my experience in the EJ20 world ARP studs are worth their weight in gold.
subaroots are also known to blow through HGs like no tomorrow
__________________
1991 244 +T LH2.4 m46 280k miles with B cam & STS cam gear adv 4*, 954 fuel & 207 ezk tuned with Ostrich, 350cc EV6 white injectors, 2.5" exhaust w/ magnaflow straight-through, SLC free wideband
esmth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:15 PM   #5
KeizerBrickGuy
Board Member
 
KeizerBrickGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Keizer, OR
Default

Haha. It is true on the NA motors for sure....but the biggest known issue is ring-land failure.
KeizerBrickGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:27 PM   #6
VB242
One hundred gift baskets
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
not really, and get an SCP head if yours isn't already.
It's not, i didn't think it was an issue with a B21 since there's a little more meat on the block. Last time he just kissed it I think he said ,.005"just to clean it up.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:32 PM   #7
eabras
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: norway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
I just popped another Elring head gasket yesterday. New bolts last time or maybe the time before that actually. I know what my problem is, it's that I don't have enough fuel for full boost in 3rd gear and not being quick enough letting off the throttle. I plan on rectifying this shortly. But since I'm going to have it apart yet again, are arp studs a worthwhile investment. Plus t'd B21 with k-jet 160 head.
Fancy studs won't help you from blowing gaskets if the afr and timing is wrong..
eabras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:38 PM   #8
VB242
One hundred gift baskets
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eabras View Post
Fancy studs won't help you from blowing gaskets if the afr and timing is wrong..
I'm still working on my tune, and I need about $400 to do what I want with the fuel system, buy my diesel drop front sway bar.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:40 PM   #9
VB242
One hundred gift baskets
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Also I made it home 11 miles without any coolant from from the exhaust after I loosened the coolant cap so fingers crossed it's minor.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:43 PM   #10
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeizerBrickGuy View Post
In my experience in the EJ20 world ARP studs are worth their weight in gold.
Slightly different block and problem. since both block and heads are aluminum there is no harshly different growth rate problems as in iron block/aluminum head cars..
Likewise iron/block/iron heads like the nearest thing to Volvo, the one that has same bore, stroke, bore c-c, head and main bolt sized etc.

That mainly just shows what a piece of crap EJ20 and the whole EJ family is stock.
__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 01:08 PM   #11
cosbySweater
Board Member
 
cosbySweater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Monterey/Falun
Default

Think of the head gasket as your fuse. Get more fuel in it and use bolts. Better then clobbering a piston imo
__________________
1979 Volvo 244DL 6.0/4l80e,8.8,Ms3x goldbox ecu and Mircrosquirt tcu, s366 clone.
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid, 5 Speed
1994 Corvette, 6speed, PNP special, gonna pill it to kill it

Quote:
Originally Posted by bricktop420 View Post
Thank you very much everybody... i now feel sufficiently retarded and will go cry in the corner...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
How come we get a Cosby sweater but no Boner in sweatpants in this thread?
cosbySweater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:41 PM   #12
shoestring
Board Member
 
shoestring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Default

Not to be a dick, but if you know what the problem is, fix it. Don't look to some silver bullet to cover it up.
shoestring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:47 PM   #13
gsellstr
Vintage anti-ricer
 
gsellstr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Somewhere in a northern California smog bank
Default

Depends on how much you plan to do. For me, it's been worth it since my car has had the head off several times, but I've only bought 1 set of studs, not a couple sets of bolts. Also slightly higher than normal loading at 20psi. lol

For stock, eh, run the bolts and fix your tune.
__________________
RIP
Doug Williams aka Mr. Doug 4/15/2009
Pete Fluitman aka fivehundred 7/14/2013
Mick Starkey aka TrickMick 1/10/14

74 144 B20
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=224983

90 745Ti
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=334698

If you need Superpro bushings PM me for price and availability!
gsellstr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:54 PM   #14
Jack
junkman
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NorCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeizerBrickGuy View Post
In my experience in the EJ20 world ARP studs are worth their weight in gold.
I got a NOS set. I'll sell it to you for 1/2 the going rate of gold
__________________
85 245 | 82 242| 75 245| 69 145 |66 122

Quote:
Originally Posted by toms_elleck View Post
I regretfully agree with Jack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 122power View Post
make k-jet great again.
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 09:47 PM   #15
dl242gt
Can play the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

My suggestion is to lower the boost to a safe fueling level. Put it back together and use the cometic if you want a stronger head gasket and torque the head bolts to the Penta specs. I think it's 120 degrees if I recall correctly.
__________________
Dave,
1982 242 turbo. MVP coilover front and rear adjustable suspension. Bilstein HD. IPD 25/25 bars. 3" rusty MVP exhaust. Cosworth Sierra hot side T3 .48 with upgraded stock .42 compressor. Ported 90+. D&F Performance flowed 405 with enem V15 turbo cam, Clanky worn True Track diff. Flat hood 1979 242 front.

1993 245 Classic, 411k miles, enem V15. 5spd. IPD bars and chassis braces. New Simons sport exhaust from Scandix.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 01:24 AM   #16
VB242
One hundred gift baskets
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Thanks for the advice, question was only about head studs, I plan on boosting to 20psi or more, possibly. I will have the fuel supply sorted out before I beat on it again.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 01:38 AM   #17
ryan242v
Board Member
 
ryan242v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: va beach
Default

Yes head studs are worth the money. Whether you need them or not is a different story and doesn't really matter. ARP head studs are far more resistant to stretching, which prevents the head from lifting ever so slightly and blowing out a headgasket. Also, studs allow for a more accurate bolt torque value. A MLS headgasket and head studs are definitely the bees knees, especially if you like removing your cylinder head often.
__________________
2009 Schwinn Leguna 50!! Scooter Puff Jr. 5,500 miles!
1998 S70 T5M, 260k miles, needs Rack and Pinion
1987 244 DL, 220k miles (Current Daily Driver)
1979 242 DL, 500k miles, B230FT, M45, 3.31 diff
1973 1800ES awaiting restoration, not togethor
1971 Camaro, my highschool car, rusting away
1969 Suzuki T500 Titan II
ryan242v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 01:44 AM   #18
eabras
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: norway
Default

Stock bolts and the elring gasket on my b21 seems to work fine for 32psi..
eabras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 02:26 AM   #19
Jack
junkman
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NorCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eabras View Post
Stock bolts and the elring gasket on my b21 seems to work fine for 32psi..
But no bling dude
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 08:41 AM   #20
ICantDrift
Board Member
 
ICantDrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Albany-ish, NY
Default

Again, this isn't for a redblock but on BMW M30's, headstuds make the difference between cylinder pressure leaking out between the head and the block and not having that happen
__________________
Sam
ICantDrift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:03 AM   #21
VB242
One hundred gift baskets
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eabras View Post
Stock bolts and the elring gasket on my b21 seems to work fine for 32psi..
What head are you using? Also I'm planning on going elring again since I bought it from FCP, I'll try out their lifetime warranty.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:15 AM   #22
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

get new bolts (~$30 or whatever), elring gasket. copper coat the gasket, torque the bolts down, then turn em to 110 degrees instead of 90 (unless they get "gooey" before 110). that's what, like $50 in parts for everything?
linuxman51 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:44 AM   #23
VB242
One hundred gift baskets
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
get new bolts (~$30 or whatever), elring gasket. copper coat the gasket, torque the bolts down, then turn em to 110 degrees instead of 90 (unless they get "gooey" before 110). that's what, like $50 in parts for everything?
I think I went 115 degrees last time but I didn't copper coat the gasket. Also one use bolts but I checked the length on all of them.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 11:22 AM   #24
eabras
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: norway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
What head are you using? Also I'm planning on going elring again since I bought it from FCP, I'll try out their lifetime warranty.
398 from 1984. Had it off a while ago (blew hg due to mishap with crank sensor image). Didn't do anything fancy (well, I measured the bolts and scraped off som residue from the old hg) before it went back on the engine
eabras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 05:22 PM   #25
swedefiend
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Woodstock
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
get new bolts (~$30 or whatever), elring gasket. copper coat the gasket, torque the bolts down, then turn em to 110 degrees instead of 90 (unless they get "gooey" before 110). that's what, like $50 in parts for everything?
This.
swedefiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.