home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-2018, 03:35 AM   #1
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default 50 trim T04E compressor in 60 trim housing

So I got a good deal on a Garrett T3/T4 with a 60 trim comp wheel, stage 3 exhaust wheel, .60 ar cold side and .63 hot side but it is a bit too large for my build. I was wondering if to quicken the spool, I could simply just swap in a 50 trim T04E wheel in the 60 trim housing and be good to go (compressor map looks a lot better for my intended boost levels). My question is, if I downsize my comp wheel to 50 trim, is it necessary to get a new 50 trim compressor housing as well? Or will the new wheel work alright in the old 60 trim housing.

Also, us Kinugawa (I think it’s spelled like that) a reliable source for compressor wheels? A 50 trim T04E wheel is around $60.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 07:43 AM   #2
DET17
Reformed SAABaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NW Georgia
Default

Typically the comp. wheel is machined to match the housing/back plate .... but there may be "families" of housings that several wheels will work with.

I've read of several TB folks that had their compressor housings/backing plates machined to clear larger wheels. PM Duder, who I believe works for Garrett, or call their tech support line.

Edit - A 0.48 A/R turbine wheel would also improve your condition considerably... earlier boost. If you have the map for the 50 trim compressor wheel, post it in this thread.
__________________
Project "cheap thrills" build thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...67#post4211467

Feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=198746

Last edited by DET17; 02-09-2018 at 07:47 AM.. Reason: java working.....
DET17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 10:46 AM   #3
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DET17 View Post
Typically the comp. wheel is machined to match the housing/back plate .... but there may be "families" of housings that several wheels will work with.

I've read of several TB folks that had their compressor housings/backing plates machined to clear larger wheels. PM Duder, who I believe works for Garrett, or call their tech support line.

Edit - A 0.48 A/R turbine wheel would also improve your condition considerably... earlier boost. If you have the map for the 50 trim compressor wheel, post it in this thread.
Alright, makes sense.

Here’s the compressor map:

http://turbocharged.com/catalog/compmaps/fig13.html
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 03:57 PM   #4
BDKR
Section 9
 
BDKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Horizons Cave
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
So I got a good deal on a Garrett T3/T4 with a 60 trim comp wheel, stage 3 exhaust wheel, .60 ar cold side and .63 hot side but it is a bit too large for my build. I was wondering if to quicken the spool, I could simply just swap in a 50 trim T04E wheel in the 60 trim housing and be good to go (compressor map looks a lot better for my intended boost levels). My question is, if I downsize my comp wheel to 50 trim, is it necessary to get a new 50 trim compressor housing as well? Or will the new wheel work alright in the old 60 trim housing.

Also, us Kinugawa (I think it’s spelled like that) a reliable source for compressor wheels? A 50 trim T04E wheel is around $60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DET17 View Post
Typically the comp. wheel is machined to match the housing/back plate .... but there may be "families" of housings that several wheels will work with.

I've read of several TB folks that had their compressor housings/backing plates machined to clear larger wheels. PM Duder, who I believe works for Garrett, or call their tech support line.

Edit - A 0.48 A/R turbine wheel would also improve your condition considerably... earlier boost. If you have the map for the 50 trim compressor wheel, post it in this thread.
A couple of things sound slightly off here you guys.

1) Hot side changes are where you're normally going to see changes in spool time.
2) There really isn't a .48 AR wheel. That's really just a T3 turbine wheel that fits in .48, .52, .63 and others I may not be remembering. BUT, the OP has a stage III wheel which is a bit bigger. Now he can get a .48 ar housing that will fit that stage 3 wheel. That would be an OK match for compressor.
3) If you want go smaller on the hot side to improve spool time, I'd put on a larger .70 AR T04S style housing with anti-surge machining. Or better yet, just run it with the 60 first and see if you encounter any on spool surge issues.

Anyway, sounds like a rocking turbo.
__________________
Quote:
For all you Dijkstra fanboys:

Knuth also cites a letter sent to him by Dijkstra, in which the latter adds some nuance to this earlier statements: "Please don't fall into the trap of believing that I am terribly dogmatical about [the go to statement]. I have the uncomfortable feeling that others are making a religion out of it, as if the conceptual problems of programming could be solved by a single trick, by a simple form of coding discipline!"
BDKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 07:13 PM   #5
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Iíve run the turbo and Iím not really feeling boost hit until around 5000 hence why Iím asking. I would have thought simply the significant difference in the compressor map would indicate a large performance difference.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 10:35 PM   #6
tryingbe
Boosting along.
 
tryingbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mesa, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
I was wondering if to quicken the spool, I could simply just swap in a 50 trim T04E wheel in the 60 trim housing and be good to go
If you do that, the turbo will never spool.

Wheel and compressor housing are like wheel and tire, they need to match.
__________________
85 GLH 367whp
00 Insight 72 mpg
tryingbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 11:48 PM   #7
NotSoFresh
Sick ****** T-Brick Prick
 
NotSoFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: gangcouver
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
Iíve run the turbo and Iím not really feeling boost hit until around 5000 hence why Iím asking. I would have thought simply the significant difference in the compressor map would indicate a large performance difference.
Many have run similar setups as you with much lower boost threshold. Difference is they tuned theirs. With dynos and data and stuff.

Start at stage 0. Set the static timing of everything properly. Cam and ignition. By the book. Leave adjustable cam gear at 0. Test for and fix all vacuum, exhaust and boost leaks. THEN start the engine with boost set to wastegate pressure. Where does boost come on? Creep up to 18psi or whatever.

You are running a t-cam, right? T-cam is not a performance cam. This may be your problem. You are probably cam restricted. Get a real cam. An A or a K cam may help, many use them in turbo engines, and they are much more common in canada than the usa. Many canucks pull them and sell them to yanks. There are better cams but not in a junkyard. The cam lift, duration and its overlap can really make a difference to spool time. First thing to make sure is that the turbine is seeing ALL the exhaust energy it can. No exhaust leaks. An intake manifold to head or manifold to turbo exhaust leak is bad, and will for sure effect the turbo spool. You have an ebay manifold, is it flat? You can not assume new gaskets are good. How could you hear an exhaust leak with the straight pipe in your face anyways? You can also lose boost after the turbo. This was discussed in the other thread.
Have you TESTED for boost/exhaust leaks? Have you driven it with the leaks fixed? Do you have any dyno runs or data logs to see whats going on? This is what building a serious engine entails. Play around without data and you are going to break stuff. Usually the stuff that will break cost more than the dyno runs would have. With a straight pipe out the hood, and high boost, you will NEVER hear the detonation before it damages things. Its hard to hear for the inexperiences with a normal exhaust. It can only take a few seconds running too lean at 18psi to melt a piston, or break a rod........

Lastly, are you sure the turbo doesn't have the wrong wheels in it right now? Why was it such a good deal? Perhaps it was a good deal because the exhaust turbine is a little too small and is letting exhaust bypass it or something.

Also, you already have an 8 page thread on this topic. No need to start a new one, just ask this question in there. Considering the fact that you were blowing into the intake pipes with your mouth to look for leaks, and skipped the cam a tooth then started the engine to see what would happen, I would take the turbo to a shop to get the wheels looked at/changed.
NotSoFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 09:17 AM   #8
DET17
Reformed SAABaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NW Georgia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoFresh View Post
Many have run similar setups as you with much lower boost threshold. Difference is they tuned theirs. With dynos and data and stuff.........Do you have any dyno runs or data logs to see whats going on? This is what building a serious engine entails.
An intelligent, thorough development plan, is what this gentlemen speaks of! NOT THE NORM for TB folks, but the right way.
DET17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2018, 08:07 PM   #9
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Updated the other thread.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.