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Old 12-19-2016, 11:36 AM   #26
pat244ti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quillc View Post
That main hoop is super far back.
The small door openings on a 244 exaggerate it a good amount especially in terms of distance to the b pillar which is irrelevant from what I understand, but from my prespective (not an engineer or cage builder) I'm pretty sure there are two ideal spots to place the main hoop and it's either snug right up in front or on top of the bump in the floor for the backseat (or if you are from the underside the front of the rear trailing arm) with it well plated around it. I could be wrong but having it on top seems more ideal for a rally car considering what it is doing. My 244 road race car has it in front of the bump and this is maybe 6 inches back.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:31 PM   #27
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Here's a finished example of a 244 rally car up in Canada campaigned by Eric Ewert with similar main hoop placement

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Old 12-26-2016, 03:34 PM   #28
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Been busy with the holidays myself but Al sent me this update.

I also received an official response from the ARA in regards to whether or not I will be able to run Group 5

"On the question of whether you can enter in a Group 5 car, that is being debated by the ARA Board right now. We should see an announcement in early Jan. We do have the ability to grant exemptions based on previous motorsport experience so I guess you will be one of the first candidates for the soon to be appointed ARA Competition Director. "
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:42 PM   #29
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What are you going to do for suspension?
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:46 PM   #30
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Keeping it fairly simple for now - have a line on some Bilstein UMS struts with modified knuckles from another rally car that is upgrading to E36 stuff.
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Old 12-27-2016, 01:16 AM   #31
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Make sure you box the lower arms. Front and back. They like to bend on 240s.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:21 AM   #32
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Cool build, I envy your rules, if we want to run turbo here we have to stick strictly to group 2 or group A rules. Group 2 is no fun and group A is impossible to find parts as almost nothing is made these days.

Look over here in Sweden for suspensionstuff that is tested, proven and works, you can make a 240 fast on gravel but it takes some work.
The front is easy, bolt on parts work great, like this: http://www.motorsportshop.nu/epages/...oducts/100042R

and this: http://www.motorsportshop.nu/epages/...ucts/100027-1L

The back is harder, without making some room for coilovers in the frame its hard to get the suspensiontravel you need to get good grip.

A good start in the back is a decent diff that releases when not under load and locks up good when you are on the throttle.
We used this as a budget alternative before, it worked good but was a bit fragile. http://bakaxel.se/lamelldiff-rally-r...ing-volvo.html

If you want the best, this is it: http://www.tractive.se/products/differentials
very expensive but unbreakable and awesome, we also use a Tractive transmission.
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Old 12-27-2016, 03:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselboy View Post
Make sure you box the lower arms. Front and back. They like to bend on 240s.
Yup! We were planning on doing that. I have an extra set of Josh's plates but Al said we need to go even thicker!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Snake View Post
Cool build, I envy your rules, if we want to run turbo here we have to stick strictly to group 2 or group A rules. Group 2 is no fun and group A is impossible to find parts as almost nothing is made these days.

Look over here in Sweden for suspensionstuff that is tested, proven and works, you can make a 240 fast on gravel but it takes some work.
The front is easy, bolt on parts work great, like this: http://www.motorsportshop.nu/epages/...oducts/100042R

and this: http://www.motorsportshop.nu/epages/...ucts/100027-1L

The back is harder, without making some room for coilovers in the frame its hard to get the suspensiontravel you need to get good grip.

A good start in the back is a decent diff that releases when not under load and locks up good when you are on the throttle.
We used this as a budget alternative before, it worked good but was a bit fragile. http://bakaxel.se/lamelldiff-rally-r...ing-volvo.html

If you want the best, this is it: http://www.tractive.se/products/differentials
very expensive but unbreakable and awesome, we also use a Tractive transmission.
Thanks for the links! I had mostly been eyeballing the Sellholm stuff but if I am seeing things right, that stuff is cheaper & pretty much the same.

For the rear, I will eventually go with JVL's suggestion of shock towers to solve the rear travel but that will probably come next year along with a big fuel cell.

Those diff options look nice, I was thinking of trying a welded diff from the get go to see how I like it. Have not heard much bad things about going that route.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:33 AM   #34
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Welded diff works but its not fast, a diff that releases to fully open when not under load works much better, with a welded diff you cant let of the throttle in a turn without loosing a lot of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dno0ON1Cj9k
Good example of how our diff works, very different then a solid diff, it is very noticeable when the road is bad.
Nice and steady with powertransfer to the wheel that needs it, fast.

We use Reiger suspension from http://tech-pro.se/, not cheap but very awesome and Micke that runs the place is a great guy with lots and lots of knowledge.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:53 PM   #35
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The welded diff definitely isn't ideal, but if you have limited funds, it takes about an hour to install. We finally (after 3 years) broke an axle on the rally car with a welded diff. It was a full throttle shift (that was pretty abrupt) mid corner and the outside axle broke at the splines.

I know that there are a few RWD rally guys that used to use locking differentials with good success (not the G80, those are not worth it). They're not nearly as nice as a good LSD, but for $250 new, they're about 1/5th the price.

You still might be able to pick up a Gripper diff for ~$1100 USD with whatever ramp angles you spec, FYI.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
The welded diff definitely isn't ideal, but if you have limited funds, it takes about an hour to install. We finally (after 3 years) broke an axle on the rally car with a welded diff. It was a full throttle shift (that was pretty abrupt) mid corner and the outside axle broke at the splines.

I know that there are a few RWD rally guys that used to use locking differentials with good success (not the G80, those are not worth it). They're not nearly as nice as a good LSD, but for $250 new, they're about 1/5th the price.

You still might be able to pick up a Gripper diff for ~$1100 USD with whatever ramp angles you spec, FYI.
I'm also thinking the Wavetrac might not be a bad option. Has a lifetime warranty. Sub $1k too

We'll see how my budget looks come March or so. It was with a totally different car doing a different type of racing on a similar surface, but my stock car had a spool and I thought it was predictable enough so I don't think a welded diff will be too bad, I definitely know there are better options.

Made a few trips up to Novato this week to work on the car with Al.

Getting it cleaned up for seam welding, found a couple of cracks here and there.





Yesterday we got the gas tank, rear axle and front crossmember out. Just about ready to go on the rotisserie next time I'm up there.


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Old 01-05-2017, 03:31 PM   #37
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You are killing it with the progress!
I wish my shop wasn't 20deg currently. It really makes playing with race cars difficult when you're dressed up like the Michelin man.

Since you came from a circle track background, I doubt you'll have trouble pitching the car into corners with a welded diff.
My only hesitation with the wavetrac is the durability of the locking mechanism and how well it will hold up to repeated abuse. It's a twirly gear diff which is somewhat decent for road racing if the tires stay on the ground and loaded, but worthless for rally as they get really funky as grip changes from one wheel to the other rapidly. The price difference between the Wavetrac and a Gripper is about a month of Top Ramen...
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
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You are killing it with the progress!
I wish my shop wasn't 20deg currently. It really makes playing with race cars difficult when you're dressed up like the Michelin man.
..
Downside of my shop is the roof leaks, upside is that means the landlord pays for infinite heat, its 75 degrees in there right now. Take that, carbon footprint!

Indeed, Pat is killing it. Every time he comes up, he gets about a weeks work done in a day.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:59 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by megulon-7 View Post
Downside of my shop is the roof leaks, upside is that means the landlord pays for infinite heat, its 75 degrees in there right now. Take that, carbon footprint!

Indeed, Pat is killing it. Every time he comes up, he gets about a weeks work done in a day.
You should come up and cage the Moostang for me. I can provide you a dry workplace that's about 20 degrees right now. I'll feed you unlimited tacos and coffee. I'll sit in the house being warm.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:45 PM   #40
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I always feel like I could get more done - but for living 100 miles away, trying not to get too dirty [I've been visiting my sick grandmother each time I come up - so I don't want to go into the nursing home looking like a bum], not having my toolbox there, shooting the **** a bunch and having to eat a burrito with a fork and knife at lunch I am satisfied enough with the progress.

Al is killing it too.

Reminds me a lot of the conditions and workspace when I was dealing with building my other 244 race car. Except that shop was cold & wet.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:59 PM   #41
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Unlimited tacos and coffee, eh? I hope there's a bathroom.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:14 PM   #42
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Unlimited tacos and coffee, eh? I hope there's a bathroom.
Meh, there's a tree out back and a bush on the side of the shop.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:07 PM   #43
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Are you just using a wire wheel to remove all the tar/undercoating crap?
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:31 PM   #44
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Bosch Bulldog roto hammer with the tile-remover chisel bit. Damn, giving away my best secrets here. the trick is to put a nice edge on the chisel, with a good sharp corner, but at only like 45 degree angle, so it doesn't dig in and cut the steel. It works like a charm once you get the hang of it, maybe 3-4 minutes per square foot.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:38 PM   #45
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What happened to dry ice and the rubber mallet?
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Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

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Old 01-06-2017, 12:32 AM   #46
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does not work as advertised; Volvos were engineered to operate in dry ice level cold environments...
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:34 AM   #47
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Roto hammer does work great, but there still are a few nooks, crannies and odd angles where it's too big & a heat gun and a scraper are needed.

This is like the 5th car I've "sound livened." Definitely getting faster and learning new tricks each time
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:35 AM   #48
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Thoughts on the oscillating saw? I love them. You can even groove rally tires with them!
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:46 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megulon-7 View Post
does not work as advertised; Volvos were engineered to operate in dry ice level cold environments...
Re dry ice
Never did.. That's why somebody smrat invented LIQUID nitrogen ----
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:31 PM   #50
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Thoughts on the oscillating saw? I love them. You can even groove rally tires with them!
Thats exactly what I used one of those for on my stock car since we were extremely limited on our tire selection! Were you talking about removing the tar paper with one?

Got an update from Al the other day. Started with the seam welds. I will be coming up there for a day or two this week




In a bit of somewhat unimportant not technical news, since we are getting pretty close on having the "tub" of the car pretty much done, I've settled on what to paint it with. Called the local tractor shop for some John Deer Blitz Black. Tough, durable, cheapish and looks pretty decent if you dont put 100% effort into prep

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