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Old 02-09-2018, 06:15 PM   #1
Trevor57
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Default 92 240 no fuel, no spark.

I purchased an automatic 245 a while back, and planned to use the clean body for a project. I pulled the engine and auto trans, expecting to do a manual swap, but the car sat for over a year. I finally got motivated to do something with it, and it is becoming a bit of a mess.

The car was running, and driving fine when I removed the engine. I am doing a m47 swap, and +t. While getting the pedal box in, I quickly realized that the underdash wiring was a little hacked up. It appears that the previous owner had tried to retrofit cruise control on this car, and didn't do a great job on the install. (the cruise did not work on the drive home from purchase.) There were many splices, and things that made no sense.

I tried to start the car today, and no crank. I verified the starter was good, and then bypassed more of their hack wiring to get the starter to turn over. Now I have no fuel, and no spark.

The project car is at an offsite garage, and I didn't have a ton of time to troubleshoot this morning, but I am planning to go back tonight, or tomorrow. So far here is what I have done, or information I have.

Timing *should* be good, since the longblock sat and was running fine. I plan to double check
Fuel pump primes with key on, will check pressure at rail
Swapped back to stock computers just in case, no change.


Any input as to where I should start is appreciated. Right now I feel like there could be a wiring problem, due to their hacking. I removed the cruise setup, and maybe they had tied it into something important, and now I caused the issue. Start with fuel, or spark? I feel like I have analysis paralysis.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:06 PM   #2
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Electrics aren't my thing unless I'm looking right at them. But as someone who HAS put cruise on a non-cruise car, there are just plugs? Why would anything be getting spliced in?

Now, I'm not certain the cruise has anything to do with preventing the car starting, but have you checked the simple stuff like making sure the automatic starter lockout is bypassed?
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:51 PM   #3
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The injectors open when using diagnostic tester. So what tells the injectors to pulse? Crank sensor?
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:34 PM   #4
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Is your starter override circuit completed? The autos have a pie piece in the shifter mechanism that prevents the car starter from running in drive. Have you bypassed this?
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:09 PM   #5
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It cranks fine. Starter works as it should.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:00 PM   #6
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If it cranks well and it isn't the timing belt broken. Then the next thing I check is for spark. If you have a voltmeter you can test what I remember is terminal two on the ignition amp near the battery. If it is pulsing a ~0-2v signal then it is triggering the amp. Then check at a spark plug to make sure the spark reaches the cylinder.

No triggering may mean broken wiring, a bad or damaged engine speed sensor or bad ezk computer. If you have triggering then the system relay should be turning on and an rpm signal should be going to the fuel computer. If that is missing then the fuel pump relay won't turn on. That is the output from the ignition amp to the coil negative terminal 1 and to the fuel computer. The white/red wire.

Recently I had a no spark no fuel with my 93 wagon. The fuel pump relay had melted internally no longer turning on the system side or the fuel side of the relay.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:05 PM   #7
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^ Why would the FPR have anything to do with the ignition side of things? I thought they were completely separate on 240s.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:57 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input. I will try this tomorrow. I have a good working lh 2.4 +t that i am pulling an swapping parts, as it is a known good setup, and all components work. I swapped ezk already, but I have a sneaking feeling that this is wiring related.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor57 View Post
Thanks for the input. I will try this tomorrow. I have a good working lh 2.4 +t that i am pulling an swapping parts, as it is a known good setup, and all components work. I swapped ezk already, but I have a sneaking feeling that this is wiring related.
If you swap in a turbo ecu in place of an na ecu, and vice versa, the car will probably not like to idle. The injector scaling is incorrect. It might sputter and die quite a few times before idling.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:55 PM   #10
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Default id bet fuel pump relay

Id check FPR then CPS and the big fuse by the battery.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:13 PM   #11
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I tested the ppwer stage, and am getting voltage readings during crank. So i guess that the ecu is recieving, and sending singnal for spark. So that means to me, that it is a problem with power stage, coil, or wiring between them. Sound correct?
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseRing View Post
^ Why would the FPR have anything to do with the ignition side of things? I thought they were completely separate on 240s.
I think it was because nothing turned on with both sides of the relay. So the whole system fuel and ezk didn't turn on.
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:57 PM   #13
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Ok, thanks for all the help. I removed the coil to test it, and when doing so I noticed the 2 pin connector from the power stage to the coil was not properly connected. Never saw it, because it was under the coil. Not sure how it was unplugged in the first place, but it fired right up after I reconnected the plug. I am interested how the ecu knew to cut fuel due to the coil not getting a signal to fire.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:05 PM   #14
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When you turn on the engine to start both computers are turned on (fuel and ezk ignition). But the fuel computer looks for an rpm signal from the ignition system before turning on the fuel relay. This happens very fast and if the fuel computer doesn't continue to get an rpm signal it turns the pumps off by shutting down the fuel pump relay.

You reconnected the red/white wire? That is the connection that feeds the rpm signal to the fuel computer from the coil. It also would go to a tach if you have one. It runs from the amp which provides the triggering and goes to the coil which is what the amp switches. Then the wire continues to the tach and fuel computer.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:47 PM   #15
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Thanks for the info. That makes sense. Got it running, only to find out that the radiator I got from the parts car was cracked, so I gave up for tonight.
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