home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > projects & restorations

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2017, 05:20 PM   #526
vaderfpu
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sacramento CA
Default

Doug. I had my s70 in my brother in law's shop for over a year and it's still not done. In fact the butchered my paint job and has yet to paint my deck lid, bumpers and misc. Stuff. So be careful what you wish for. Lol. My situation is different because family. Stay away from that is my advice. May have to repaint my car. Bondo shrank and can see lots of scratches through paint due to course sanding. To say the least I was pissed. Not to mention all the runs from clear. Oh well. I may have to live with the paint job for a while till I find another shop and more money. 3500 later this is where I sit . Good times.
Did I mention this is now a more than a 3 year project since it got last ran?
vaderfpu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2018, 11:01 AM   #527
The Full Banana
not yet good enough
 
The Full Banana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jackson, WI
Default

Tick tock, time for an update! What's going on with this?
__________________
Tom 1980 242 GT
The Full Banana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2018, 12:28 PM   #528
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Full Banana View Post
Tick tock, time for an update! What's going on with this?
That's a good question. I should wander over and check the body shop, I've been curious myself.
__________________
Hank Scorpio is from the Simpsons. You can call me Doug ;)
Will trade guitars/guitar parts for go fast goodies or stuff I need. Just PM.
www.kauerguitars.com the second best way to upset neighbors and alienate people.
History: Car 1 (242) | Car 2 (t5r) | Car 3 (255)
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 06:19 PM   #529
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

It's not much of an update but I sent the block to Roger to have him install the closed deck plate. Figured I might as well post pictures from the last machine shop thing, the windows milled in above the crank.




Looking forward to getting it back from Roger!
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 06:46 PM   #530
poulrais
Board Member
 
poulrais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Quebec, CAN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post
It's not much of an update but I sent the block to Roger to have him install the closed deck plate. Figured I might as well post pictures from the last machine shop thing, the windows milled in above the crank.

Looking forward to getting it back from Roger!
Mine came out like this after getting a deck job. Blockguard and shims:




__________________


1990, Volvo 740 16v +T
1991, Volvo 745T 16V - crushed
build thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=249553
poulrais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 07:19 PM   #531
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

Looks great! I'm really excited about getting this done.
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 07:36 PM   #532
poulrais
Board Member
 
poulrais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Quebec, CAN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post
Looks great! I'm really excited about getting this done.
Where are you getting your pistons?
poulrais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2018, 02:13 PM   #533
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
Where are you getting your pistons?
I've actually had a set of forged pistons for years for this but they are stock size. We will see if they'll still work.
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 06:19 PM   #534
The Full Banana
not yet good enough
 
The Full Banana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jackson, WI
Default

Before I forget to mention this, I would consider ditching the ATP manifold for something else. It positions the turbo quite low, which makes the oil drain a huge headache. It's looking more and more like I'm going to have to either run a scavenge pump for the drain or replace the manifold with something else and rework everything on the turbo side of the engine.
The Full Banana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 07:44 PM   #535
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Full Banana View Post
Before I forget to mention this, I would consider ditching the ATP manifold for something else. It positions the turbo quite low, which makes the oil drain a huge headache. It's looking more and more like I'm going to have to either run a scavenge pump for the drain or replace the manifold with something else and rework everything on the turbo side of the engine.
Yeah I've been following along. It's funny, I talked to Chris at length about it at Davis and he's still convinced that the draining to the pan wing should be fine. I think I still may do my plan of using some aluminum tubing and coming in thru the side of the pan and draining above the wind age tray.
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 08:06 PM   #536
Duder
His Dudeness, El Duderino
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post
Yeah I've been following along. It's funny, I talked to Chris at length about it at Davis and he's still convinced that the draining to the pan wing should be fine. I think I still may do my plan of using some aluminum tubing and coming in thru the side of the pan and draining above the wind age tray.
Eh, I wouldn't say I was convinced - I would need to see the exact setup and understand the details. But it can work. The main thing I think we talked about was there are two schools of thought for gravity turbo drains... 1) drain above the oil level into the block or up high on the pan, and work to keep crankcase pressure down, to allow free drainage. 2) Drain down into the sump under the oil level so that your turbo is isolated from crankcase pressure (like the drain tube that comes off the bottom of a Redblock oil separator box, which goes down into the oil).

If turbo mounting is such that you can't drain high on the block or pan, or can't maintain gradual bends, then 2) can be doable since your crankcase air pressure doesn't directly make its way into the turbo drain line and center housing, since it's buffered by liquid oil. In that case though your drain tube or hose ID would need to be quite large. Oil volume increases significantly through a ball bearing and it's quite foamy on the way down.
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 11:57 PM   #537
The Full Banana
not yet good enough
 
The Full Banana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jackson, WI
Default

Well now I’m interested.... perhaps it’s worth increasing the drain line size

edit: for reference, here's the drain in question. posting links rather than embedding to not clog up Doug's thread too much

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4318/...d4c39ff4_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4305/...699ddb31_b.jpg

Last edited by The Full Banana; 05-15-2018 at 10:59 AM..
The Full Banana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 08:41 AM   #538
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

It looks like you could in theory use this: https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...gory_Code=GTOR

and then go from 1/2" to AN12 adapter. What do you think Chris? Think that might help in this situation instead of AN10?
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 11:20 AM   #539
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Full Banana View Post
Well now I’m interested.... perhaps it’s worth increasing the drain line size

edit: for reference, here's the drain in question. posting links rather than embedding to not clog up Doug's thread too much

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4318/...d4c39ff4_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4305/...699ddb31_b.jpg
Not clogging it up at all. I've had the same concern when I first put mine "together" and it's been a worry for a few years.

So now it looks like we have two options:

1. Switch to AN12 to increase the internal volume of the drain line, that might help provide some cushion in terms of draining to the pan wing.

2.: Or my alternate plan:


Weld an AN10 on an small tube extension here above the windage tray. It'll mean that the return is going to be more or less parallel to the ground for the last say 1/2" of flow but I think that would be ok. I can still come in on a relatively low angle to it (45* at the fitting) and straight down from the turbo. This would be a bit less than ideal in terms of angles but at least would put it above oil level.
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 11:54 AM   #540
The Full Banana
not yet good enough
 
The Full Banana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jackson, WI
Default

I'm definitely willing to test out option 1 if stepping up to 12an would be beneficial. I'm hoping to avoid pulling the engine to deal with the pan.

Thinking about increasing that internal volume... would it be helpful to take that a bit to the extreme and build a reservoir of sorts in between? Or is that just going to slow the flow of oil even more and make things worse...

Last edited by The Full Banana; 05-15-2018 at 12:01 PM..
The Full Banana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 12:03 PM   #541
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Full Banana View Post
I'm definitely willing to test out option 1 if stepping up to 12an would be beneficial. I'm hoping to avoid pulling the engine to deal with the pan.

Thinking about increasing that internal volume... would it be helpful to take that a bit to the extreme and build a reservoir of sorts in between? Or is that just going to slow the flow of oil even more and make things worse...
Almost a glorified catch can with an10 top and bottom? Sounds intriguing.
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 12:13 PM   #542
The Full Banana
not yet good enough
 
The Full Banana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jackson, WI
Default

Yeah, I'm picturing something similar to what I've seen for 911s before a scavenge pump:


That or basically an inline oil filter, without the filtery bits in there.


It might be a bit tight to fit the inline filter, so it might need to be a simple can with barbs on it to conserve space. Like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-30-MI....c100005.m1851

Last edited by The Full Banana; 05-15-2018 at 12:37 PM..
The Full Banana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 12:56 PM   #543
Duder
His Dudeness, El Duderino
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Anything you can do to increase the volume of the oil drain will help, be it an external sump or larger drain line. The oil coming out of a ball bearing turbo at full flow and high shaft speed is extremely frothy / foamy, so the volume is much higher than what you're putting into the turbo. Sorry I don't have quantitative values handy but my guesstimate is probably close to 2:1....so if you had 1.0L/min flow at the inlet, you'd be getting near 2.0L/min at the outlet. If you can give it a place to collect and settle down without backing up into the center housing it will help prevent leakage past the seals for sure.

On the T5 engine, is that oil pan wing completely submerged below oil level?
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 01:03 PM   #544
poulrais
Board Member
 
poulrais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Quebec, CAN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
Anything you can do to increase the volume of the oil drain will help, be it an external sump or larger drain line. The oil coming out of a ball bearing turbo at full flow and high shaft speed is extremely frothy / foamy, so the volume is much higher than what you're putting into the turbo. Sorry I don't have quantitative values handy but my guesstimate is probably close to 2:1....so if you had 1.0L/min flow at the inlet, you'd be getting near 2.0L/min at the outlet. If you can give it a place to collect and settle down without backing up into the center housing it will help prevent leakage past the seals for sure.

On the T5 engine, is that oil pan wing completely submerged below oil level?
There is no such "wing" on a FWD T5 engine oil pan...
poulrais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 01:04 PM   #545
Duder
His Dudeness, El Duderino
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Full Banana View Post
Yeah, I'm picturing something similar to what I've seen for 911s before a scavenge pump:

That or basically an inline oil filter, without the filtery bits in there.

It might be a bit tight to fit the inline filter, so it might need to be a simple can with barbs on it to conserve space.
Yessss. You could start selling that and marketing it as a "Whiteblock oil accumulator."
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 01:06 PM   #546
Duder
His Dudeness, El Duderino
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
There is no such "wing" on a FWD T5 engine oil pan...
Understood - my question was specific to this setup, which most people do for a RWD conversion, using the shortened 960 pan.
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 01:09 PM   #547
poulrais
Board Member
 
poulrais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Quebec, CAN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
Understood - my question was specific to this setup, which most people do for a RWD conversion, using the shortened 960 pan.
My guess is that it will fill up fully when cornering even mildly.
poulrais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 01:33 PM   #548
The Full Banana
not yet good enough
 
The Full Banana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jackson, WI
Default

The 960 oil pan wing is completely submerged. Looking at the photo above of my drain, a fair amount of oil flows out of the -10an weld fitting when you remove the drain line.
The Full Banana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 01:54 PM   #549
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Full Banana View Post
The 960 oil pan wing is completely submerged. Looking at the photo above of my drain, a fair amount of oil flows out of the -10an weld fitting when you remove the drain line.
Yep and that's my worry. I also wonder if the oil level itself, when you fill the sump it's pushing up the return line to the same level.

I know that the OEM spot on the block and the turbo are damn near level but at this point, I wonder if you really have anything to loose by putting a 90* on right at the turbo and going to the block. You could probably rotate the center cartridge a few degrees off vertical to get some of the geometry better on the drain. I'm pretty sure the GT3071R on my T5R wasn't a 100% vertical for the same reason.
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 02:31 PM   #550
Duder
His Dudeness, El Duderino
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Full Banana View Post
The 960 oil pan wing is completely submerged. Looking at the photo above of my drain, a fair amount of oil flows out of the -10an weld fitting when you remove the drain line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post
Yep and that's my worry. I also wonder if the oil level itself, when you fill the sump it's pushing up the return line to the same level.

I know that the OEM spot on the block and the turbo are damn near level but at this point, I wonder if you really have anything to loose by putting a 90* on right at the turbo and going to the block. You could probably rotate the center cartridge a few degrees off vertical to get some of the geometry better on the drain. I'm pretty sure the GT3071R on my T5R wasn't a 100% vertical for the same reason.
Yeah Doug, in that case the oil return line does have liquid oil in it, up to the level of oil in the sump. My guess is the drain volume of that -10 line isn't sufficient to keep oil from backing up into the turbo center housing. You can absolutely rotate the center housing, up to 35 degrees off of horizontal actually. If that helps straighten out the drain line then it's a good option.

Tom: an accumulator sump sounds like a good thing to try if it won't cost you an arm & a leg, and if that's less involved than re-plumbing the drain into the block up higher.
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.