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Old 06-12-2018, 09:36 AM   #76
linuxman51's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL

the 16v manifold is not great at all. it looks like it would be alright but the runners are too narrow (As are the ports in the head right there at the flange). an upgraded intake manifold was worth somewhere around 70whp on mine back in the day, AND extended out the powerband on stock cams to 7k.

but for a lot of folks here and probably even in sweden, power goals don't typically dictate spending the money on swapping and fabricating whatever is needed to get an aftermarket manifold to work. 250-300hp turbo car? wouldn't worry about. sub 400hp 16v car, wouldn't worry about it there either. and I'm talking whp, not crank.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:49 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
Not really. Some of us test these things, some do these things. It has been discussed ad-nauseum on the swedish forums, and their findings and results back up other independent tests. It is a choke point. is it THE choke point? opinions vary. Are we talking NA? then yes, and if dyno test dude would post a datalog of one of the pulls I have a feeling things could be learned.
Alright, I concede. Given that my background is domestic V8s, when someone says "you can't make power with component X", I'm thinking something akin to Pontiac 301 cylinder heads. If you can make ~200bhp at 6600 rpm with a factory intake on a 2 valve 4 cyl displacing 2.3l on 30 year old technology, that has exceeded my expectations. Perhaps my expectations are more conservative than some of my colleagues here.

Again, I'm not saying you can't do better. I'm just surprised it did that well.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:20 PM   #78
I can automate that.
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver CO

This conversation has been going on for...ever.
With all makes and models.
Very rarely will you find a vehicle with a single seriously weak link.
This is a case of all of them being equally weak...or strong.
That means it was well engineered for its purpose out of the box...optimized for its use.
Changing out a single thing MAY get gains...a cam is probably the best bet because they were detuned.
Headers won’t give you power because the system is limited across the board.
An intake...meh, the head is pretty well saturated.
Head work, headers ANDintake and a cam...now you’re talking.

Or...as JVL points out.
Cheat and put a blower on the SOB so thos limits are less of a problem.
They are still there but you have swept them under the rug.

As for the test...that’s what it shows..assuming that the tuning was done competently. It shows that that header doesn’t overcome the rest of the system or eliminate a substantial weakness in the stock unit for that mi,d motor.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:46 PM   #79
Who engineered this?
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Atlanta

I thought the video was interesting.

I think it's cool you did it and put it on a dyno to see what the real numbers are. At the end of the day it's your car and if you're happy with it then that's all that really matters. Sure a turbo would make more power for cheaper but you're the one driving it at the end of the day. Just don't take anything on here too personal.

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