home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2018, 04:36 PM   #1
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default 13C to 16T swap, no gain?

1997 940T.

I recently swapped the stock 13C to a 16T (straight flange). I don't really notice any difference in power or torque. I thought the gain is at least noticeable.

What could be limiting the 16T?
- I'm running 13psi boost, didn't touch it when I swapped.
- I took a stock turbo downpipe and welded a flange on it, could a bigger downpipe make any difference?
- AFRs look fine with both turbos. Running stock injectors because of that.
- Rest of exhaust system is stock. Do I need to go bigger?

Any tips? Am I dumb for missing something obvious?
__________________
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 04:42 PM   #2
MadDog_945
Våga Vägra 8V
 
MadDog_945's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Saxony
Default

up da bewst!

and yes, you should at least go 3" to the cat
MadDog_945 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 05:08 PM   #3
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default

Thanks! Well, how much boost are the 16T folks running?
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 05:37 PM   #4
soclosenotnear
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: summerville, south carolina
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fa182 View Post
Thanks! Well, how much boost are the 16T folks running?
Got a wideband? 15-20 psi with injectors too match
soclosenotnear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 06:09 PM   #5
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

Something else might be up on your setup.

A 16t at 14psi flows way more air than a 13c does at 22+psi.

Even at lower boost there is a gain. Chances are you just do not have a calibrated butt Dyno. There are some people that can notice a 5-10bhp difference and others that can not notice the difference in 20-30hp.

Did you reset LH after you swapped turbos? The stock downpipe for sure isn't helping but for sure the larger turbo and turbine housing should help the engine pull much smoother under load once boost comes in
__________________
Chip Feedback Thread / PM LH 2.4 Chip Prices
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 06:13 PM   #6
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soclosenotnear View Post
Got a wideband? 15-20 psi with injectors too match
Yeah.

Alright, gotta give it a try with more boost.
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 06:14 PM   #7
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

None of this info is wrong, but I don't know that it helps (Mike posted while I was posting heh). You should certainly see a power increase between the 13c and the 16T because the 16T should be moving more CFM.

Exhaust is of course a huge factor and opening that up will make a big difference but you should go through and check for boost leaks. You should also consider resetting your ECU and letting it re-learn with more air.

psi for psi you should've seen a noticeable increase in power with this swap.

Check for boost leaks.

(You'll probably run out of injector right around 14/15psi on stock 3bar injectors and a 16T iirc)
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 06:15 PM   #8
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fa182 View Post
Yeah.

Alright, gotta give it a try with more boost.
Don't do this.
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2018, 06:17 PM   #9
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
Something else might be up on your setup.

A 16t at 14psi flows way more air than a 13c does at 22+psi.

Even at lower boost there is a gain. Chances are you just do not have a calibrated butt Dyno. There are some people that can notice a 5-10bhp difference and others that can not notice the difference in 20-30hp.

Did you reset LH after you swapped turbos? The stock downpipe for sure isn't helping but for sure the larger turbo and turbine housing should help the engine pull much smoother under load once boost comes in
Thanks Mike. Maybe my butt dyno is really not working too well, or maybe I just expected too much.
I did not reset the ECU, going to give it a try too.
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 12:22 AM   #10
white855T
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas,TX
Default

To be honest, many years ago I felt the same when going to a 16t. It was when I raised the boost from 10 psi to 15 psi is when I actually felt the difference. 18 psi is probably the max you would go with a 16t. 15 psi works well with a daily driver. Obviously gas mileage goes down if you're boosting all day long.
__________________
Buyer/Seller Feedback

http://turbobricks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301654
white855T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 11:55 AM   #11
Ursan
الله الفول السوداني شطائر
 
Ursan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Default

Get a wideband first.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 740freak View Post
how psi a stock can support?
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedn_j View Post
I think this might be my chariot if I can jew the price down.

1990 780t Kind of Modded 1994 945t Pegz, Tintz, Hidz.
"Rear Wheel Drive, the way God intended. If a car is being pulled from the front, doesn't that mean it's being towed?"

"Lister, you are a polyp on the anus of society." - A.J. Rimmer
Ursan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 12:06 PM   #12
JohnLane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Washington
Default

OP have you fitted a bigger inter-cooler?

Seat of the pants improvement.
__________________
Overkill is consistently more fun.
JohnLane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 01:01 PM   #13
oldschoolvolvo
Board Member
 
oldschoolvolvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default

FWIW, I also recently swapped from a 13C to a 16T, kept boost set at 10psi, stock turbo exhaust. What was noticable to me was the increased smoothness of the power delivery compared to the torque bump that the 13C had. To me it felt like the 16T continued to pull harder as the rpms climbed.

I also recommend getting a wideband O2 sensor before playing around with the boost too much.
__________________
-Mike
1998 V70 T5
1979 242 DL+T |Project Thread| |Feedback|
oldschoolvolvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 02:20 PM   #14
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default

I thought it's clear that I have a wideband by saying AFR looks fine in my initial post. I have the AEM sensor installed long before I swapped the turbo.

I do not have a bigger intercooler installed, but had a look at the do88 unit before. I looked at the graph and the numbers are very impressive. Don't have the funds for it right now unfortunately.
I notice that the torque bump from the 13C is gone as well. Much smoother now.

Thanks for all your opinions. I will reset the ECU first and maybe play with the boost in very small steps on the weekend and take it from there.
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 03:01 PM   #15
JohnLane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Washington
Default

OP here in the States we use intercoolers out of NPR diesel boxtrucks with a four cylinder diesel. It is almost a drop in replacement.
Bet there are similar across the pond that can be had for a song that will do wonders.
Intake air temps close to ambient with next to no pressure drop across the intercooler makes for more power, effiency and improved resistance to visits from the Kool-Aid dood.
JohnLane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 03:13 PM   #16
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default

Thanks John. I did my homework and read about the NPR intercoolers many times, but unfortunately we didn't get any of those trucks in continental Europe as far as I'm aware. Never seen an Isuzu or Chevy truck around here.
Is there maybe another (almost) drop in replacement?
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 03:17 PM   #17
Uncleknucklez
bruspeed
 
Uncleknucklez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fa182 View Post
Thanks John. I did my homework and read about the NPR intercoolers many times, but unfortunately we didn't get any of those trucks in continental Europe as far as I'm aware. Never seen an Isuzu or Chevy truck around here.
Is there maybe another (almost) drop in replacement?
https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar...n-ac-60mm.html
__________________
1980 242 Turbo
2004 V70R

Uncleknucklez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 03:45 PM   #18
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default

Ah, why didn't I think of KL! Ordered a couple of things from them already. Cheers!
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 04:07 PM   #19
Cwazywazy
Board Member
 
Cwazywazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Granby CT
Default

I just got the linked KL cooler. Do recommend. NPR cooler would be cheaper but I have no experience with those.
__________________
I don't know what I have
Cwazywazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 04:11 PM   #20
mark244turbo
Board Member
 
mark244turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fa182 View Post
Thanks John. I did my homework and read about the NPR intercoolers many times, but unfortunately we didn't get any of those trucks in continental Europe as far as I'm aware. Never seen an Isuzu or Chevy truck around here.
Is there maybe another (almost) drop in replacement?
I think this one has near identical dimensions as the stock intercooler only a few cm thicker.

https://m.ebay.de/itm/Ladeluftkuhler...IAAOSwfrxZw1lO

Other options are the VAG 1.8 tfsi intercooler or RS500 (ebay.co.uk)
__________________
1994 960 B204FT, full options, leather interior.
1991 745 B204GT (Swede Sixteen VT) M90 conversion.
1986 745 B230FT, 302mm V70 brakes, camber mod. (sold)
1983 244 turbo B21FT/AW71 - leather /airconditioning
1987 244 GLT - Polaris, Strutbar, viking motorsport lower chassis brace, k-cam, gaz strut/shocks, pu-bushings
mark244turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 06:12 PM   #21
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Or grab one of the ebay blocks. That said... speaking of not noticing a difference...

Whatever you do, make sure the end has 90* turns on it. My ebay unit is straight with 90* silicone couplers... yeah... had to get a smaller battery lol.
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 08:15 PM   #22
89_740Turbo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: New Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolvolvo View Post
FWIW, I also recently swapped from a 13C to a 16T, kept boost set at 10psi, stock turbo exhaust. What was noticable to me was the increased smoothness of the power delivery compared to the torque bump that the 13C had. To me it felt like the 16T continued to pull harder as the rpms climbed.

I also recommend getting a wideband O2 sensor before playing around with the boost too much.
You selling that 13c?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLane View Post
OP here in the States we use intercoolers out of NPR diesel boxtrucks with a four cylinder diesel. It is almost a drop in replacement.
Bet there are similar across the pond that can be had for a song that will do wonders.
Intake air temps close to ambient with next to no pressure drop across the intercooler makes for more power, effiency and improved resistance to visits from the Kool-Aid dood.
There are 3 sizes, right? and the largest size is the one needed?

Last edited by 89_740Turbo; 06-11-2018 at 08:30 PM..
89_740Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 08:46 PM   #23
JohnLane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Washington
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89_740Turbo View Post
There are 3 sizes, right? and the largest size is the one needed?
I'm not aware of different sizes. I got mine here on TB. Core was easily 60mm thick. Went in the Hornetkar easily with a little sawzall time to whack excess aluminum off of it. Worked great and much stronger then Volvo fitted.

From back when we could run turbos in Hornets. Lol
JohnLane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2018, 10:19 PM   #24
oldschoolvolvo
Board Member
 
oldschoolvolvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default

The preferred NPR is a 27 row unit.
oldschoolvolvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 01:32 AM   #25
Fa182
Stage 1
 
Fa182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austria
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
Whatever you do, make sure the end has 90* turns on it. My ebay unit is straight with 90* silicone couplers... yeah... had to get a smaller battery lol.
Ha, thanks for the hint! I have no AC, so the outlets are on top of the IC. Shouldn't get in the way of the battery if they're not straight.
Fa182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.