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DriftsNLifts Header dyno test

blkaplan said:
I did read what you wrote and I thought it was interesting and good info but saying that



Is wrong, it does prove something. It proves that spending money on an exhaust header on a stock head with a regular old motor and a K cam doesn't make any additional power.

Problem is you are too old to understand the context in how TLDR was used.
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Nah man, 7:1 compression, and 80s turbos ftw
 
John V said:
Then I take the time to write a top and experienced engine builder with a REAL world wide reputation and ask him to clarify--since we were just a couple of weeks ago looking at him mapping on a dyno a VOC car and he is nice enough to answer something that has been hashed about for 15 years here----and Ben can't be troubled to read what would take approximate 2-3 minutes...Too Long Didn't Read..
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Thanks John! I appreciate you and this builder taking the time.

The "too long; didn't read" comment was Ben saving OTHER people from reading the ENTIRE thread by saying what the video proved: "Putting a header on your junk doesn't more power make." He didn't say that HE didn't read anything. So all this banter regarding that was about nothing.
 
klr142 said:
Thanks John! I appreciate you and this builder taking the time.

The "too long; didn't read" comment was Ben saving OTHER people from reading the ENTIRE thread by saying what the video proved: "Putting a header on your junk doesn't more power make." He didn't say that HE didn't read anything. So all this banter regarding that was about nothing.
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He did not make that clear..TLDR immediately below quoted text...kinda foolishly thought that meant it applied to the text it was adjacent to.. What ever

But it is nice that Bj?rn ?nvedh would answer that and be confirmation of what I was told 25 years ago and have been saying forever. Its just so tiring to see HP inflation and numbers go up every so many years...Like "Group B cars were 550hp beasts.." (Yeah drivers and crew were saying 380 back then --and nobody knows the ft/lbs)

In all the chest puffing and crying from the trigger boys the useful news about ALL the manifolds being a major problem for normal aspirated power gets buried....and that's a shame.

Soon the whole thread will ratchet down and be lost...then TB can blabber about stuff as before.
 
John V said:
But it is nice that Bj?rn ?nvedh would answer that and be confirmation of what I was told 25 years ago and have been saying forever. Its just so tiring to see HP inflation and numbers go up every so many years...Like "Group B cars were 550hp beasts.." (Yeah drivers and crew were saying 380 back then --and nobody knows the ft/lbs)

In all the chest puffing and crying from the trigger boys the useful news about ALL the manifolds being a major problem for normal aspirated power gets buried....and that's a shame.

Soon the whole thread will ratchet down and be lost...then TB can blabber about stuff as before.
Click to expand...

Yes John, toot your own horn about how you're right in your own small mind and some Nordic guy proves you right.
Nobody gives a damn about your cranky old opinions or desire to be a pain in the ass. In reality, this is turbobricks, not naturally-aspirated (and barely usable power band) bricks.

Moderators, my apologies for opening up this pile up. I'll return to my prior state.
 
vwbusman66 said:
Yes John, toot your own horn about how you're right in your own small mind and some Nordic guy proves you right.
Nobody gives a damn about your cranky old opinions or desire to be a pain in the ass. In reality, this is turbobricks, not naturally-aspirated (and barely usable power band) bricks.

Moderators, my apologies for opening up this pile up. I'll return to my prior state.
Click to expand...

You're funny... ranting and raving. Truth is a lot of guys have cared about my opinions.that's why they call me and order nice stuff. And they don't call you...

You just keep saying funny things and proving you haven't ever done anything..Or know anything..
Pitiful.
 
John V said:
You're funny... ranting and raving. Truth is a lot of guys have cared about my opinions.that's why they call me and order nice stuff. And they don't call you...

You just keep saying funny things and proving you haven't ever done anything..Or know anything..
Pitiful.
Click to expand...

There's a reason my boss lets me (an 18 year old kid) head up restoration projects

I know some stuff and have done some stuff.
 
shoestring said:
Has there ever been a real discussion as to what exactly is wrong with the LH intake manifold? Any theories?
Click to expand...

John V said:
TONS..and endless..30 years of discussion..How ell do you read Swedish?

s?varturbo.se
http://forum.savarturbo.se/
Click to expand...
So the English answer, on the english-speaking forum, is "no".
But it seems we are having that discussion, so we have that going for us.
Thank you for the link, and thank you google, for improving translation. The last time I tried to use any translation software on swedish, it was useless.
 
to be fair, John's trumpeting things that most people that have been here for a while either think or say, and that is "search noob".

We have the internet, the google translate has been good enough for at least a decade for me to figure out what they're getting at on the subjects I've spent time looking for (that's the hard part, figuring out what search terms to use to get the info you want).

The issue at hand is that here, and really across the board, the new generation workforce doesn't actually seem to want to work to learn. They want to be handed things, they don't wan't to really know the whys and wherefores, just the how, and that's very frustrating to the people that have spent the time and effort to research and try and do.

The end result, at least over the past few years for me, has to just let most of yall writhe in your own filth. If you can't be bothered, why should I be bothered? It's well documented that ideologically me and the agitator are pretty much diametrically opposed when it comes to discussions on the forums, but the reality of it is that we're probably a lot more alike than either of us cares to admit to. In this case he's right.

This dyno test doesn't prove anything really. I kinda wanted it to, but thought that it probably wouldn't because of my past work and tinkering and reading. A number of these subjects that come up have been hashed out at great length even on this forum (rod length comes to mind for a great polarizing discussion), but it takes time and effort to dig that info up, just like it takes time to dig up info on savarturbo if you're not swedish or speak swedish.

To put things in a different frame: how can you draw accurate conclusions from an experiment if you haven't accounted for most/all of the variables?
Is the header worthless?
Is there a problem somewhere else upstream?
What was going on dynamically across the range for the test?
Was it tested without the stub exhaust? What were those results?
Are you sure the cam is actually degreed correctly?
Are you sure the cam isn't worn and skewing results?
Are you sure the springs are still up to the task?

I'm not trying to bust balls, I'm all about some trial and error stuff; but prior art should not be ignored esp if one is attempting to be efficient with their modding (i.e. cheap).

what turbo should I run? how much boost a stock can support? lemme get that stage 47 super turbo cam, it'll add like 80 hp and sound wicked. Why's my car slow? (or, more likely the blissfully ignorant who don't know that their car is woefully under performing for the mods. See also volvospeed)
 
vwbusman66 said:
Yes John, toot your own horn about how you're right in your own small mind and some Nordic guy proves you right.
Nobody gives a damn about your cranky old opinions or desire to be a pain in the ass. In reality, this is turbobricks, not naturally-aspirated (and barely usable power band) bricks.
Click to expand...
Seriously dude? Get the **** out of this forum.

vwbusman66 said:
There's a reason my boss lets me (an 18 year old kid) head up restoration projects

I know some stuff and have done some stuff.
Click to expand...
Get the **** out. You are definitely an 18 year old kid.

linuxman51 said:
to be fair, John's trumpeting things that most people that have been here for a while either think or say, and that is "search noob".

We have the internet, the google translate has been good enough for at least a decade for me to figure out what they're getting at on the subjects I've spent time looking for (that's the hard part, figuring out what search terms to use to get the info you want).

The issue at hand is that here, and really across the board, the new generation workforce doesn't actually seem to want to work to learn. They want to be handed things, they don't want to really know the whys and wherefores, just the how, and that's very frustrating to the people that have spent the time and effort to research and try and do.

The end result, at least over the past few years for me, has to just let most of yall writhe in your own filth. If you can't be bothered, why should I be bothered? It's well documented that ideologically me and the agitator are pretty much diametrically opposed when it comes to discussions on the forums, but the reality of it is that we're probably a lot more alike than either of us cares to admit to. In this case he's right.

This dyno test doesn't prove anything really. I kinda wanted it to, but thought that it probably wouldn't because of my past work and tinkering and reading. A number of these subjects that come up have been hashed out at great length even on this forum (rod length comes to mind for a great polarizing discussion), but it takes time and effort to dig that info up, just like it takes time to dig up info on savarturbo if you're not swedish or speak swedish.

To put things in a different frame: how can you draw accurate conclusions from an experiment if you haven't accounted for most/all of the variables?
Is the header worthless?
Is there a problem somewhere else upstream?
What was going on dynamically across the range for the test?
Was it tested without the stub exhaust? What were those results?
Are you sure the cam is actually degreed correctly?
Are you sure the cam isn't worn and skewing results?
Are you sure the springs are still up to the task?

I'm not trying to bust balls, I'm all about some trial and error stuff; but prior art should not be ignored esp if one is attempting to be efficient with their modding (i.e. cheap).

what turbo should I run? how much boost a stock can support? lemme get that stage 47 super turbo cam, it'll add like 80 hp and sound wicked. Why's my car slow? (or, more likely the blissfully ignorant who don't know that their car is woefully under performing for the mods. See also volvospeed)
Click to expand...
:nod:
 
klr142 said:
Seriously dude? Get the **** out of this forum.

Get the **** out. You are definitely an 18 year old kid.
Click to expand...

Hard pass on that one pal.

I most definitely stated that I?m 18 in my post. Unsure of the problem.
 
vwbusman66 said:
Hard pass on that one pal.

I most definitely stated that I’m 18 in my post. Unsure of the problem.
Click to expand...
Well, since you don't want to listen to your elders who know what they're talking about, why stick around? Let alone the whole respect thing.

I'll give you one guess........ Attitude
 
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klr142 said:
Well, since you don't want to listen to your elders who know what they're talking about, why stick around? Let alone the whole respect thing.

I'll give you one guess........ Attitude
Click to expand...

I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren?t complete jack off?s and jerks.
 
vwbusman66 said:
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren?t complete jack off?s and jerks.
Click to expand...

Kid, you haven't been alive long enough to understand the past history of personalities on this board. The young generation is oh so sensitive when it comes to perceived attacks. John wasn't attacking anyone. Don't like what someone is saying? Ignore it or report it.
 
vwbusman66 said:
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren?t complete jack off?s and jerks.
Click to expand...
Your definition of listening is different than mine. I'm only acting like a jerk because YOU are acting like a jerk. And yes, John has a way with typing on the forum. He's a great guy, too! An unbelievable amount of tangible experiences with that guy...
 
vwbusman66 said:
I stck around and listen to people who have tangible experiences and who aren?t complete jack off?s and jerks.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that you have your head shoved so far up your own ass that you swear you can see the light at the other end.

In other words:

20111228.gif


In other other words...
 
Wow this got messy. While I won't say that this video proved anything NEW, I appreciate the fact that someone is trying to approach this in a somewhat scientific manner: hypothesize, experiment, conclude. As I stated earlier in this thread, this PARTICULAR header didn't do anything for this engine, but one properly sized (length and diameter) would have made measureable gains. It's the reason I'm going through the rather extensive amount of work to build my own.

It's a small community. I'm not really sure why there's so much dick swinging here. These engines, except in the most extreme cases, will never make huge power. Some guys have LOTS of experience with them (not me) and probably just get frustrated repeating themselves over and over when people talk about increasing hp/tq. I get that. What I was willing to accept in my 20's to that end (wires all over the place, stuff incomplete but functional, crap driveability, etc) is totally different to what I'm willing to accept 25 years later, and yes, I think that the way I want to do things now is better, but it takes a hell of a lot longer. The impetuousness of youth, I guess.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. As long as you're happy with it, cool. If I can help you, I will.
 
mikep said:
So the English answer, on the english-speaking forum, is "no".
But it seems we are having that discussion, so we have that going for us.
Thank you for the link, and thank you google, for improving translation. The last time I tried to use any translation software on swedish, it was useless.
Click to expand...

Yeah there has been Mike..runner volume.. I can't count how many times that's been discussed.

And yes translations software for the normal slangy tech-nerd and always sarcastic way that Swedes talk to each-other --useless>
That's why I have always done word-for-word translations line by line and underneath to help show just how near the languages are and how many cognates and near-cognates there are.
 
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