home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > General > website & board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-02-2008, 01:58 AM   #51
Freq
Board Member
 
Freq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VolvoSpeed
Default

On my way to see Rush I was driving through central WA with my friend who had his GPS system with him. According to my speedometer I hit 113mph. The Garmin said I only hit 109. So as much as I'd like to play I don't think I have the memory to keep track of all my numbers and take tire pressure, old parts, etc. into account. I think once I was at the bottom of the red on my fuel gauge (IE not completely empty) I was at 26mpg assuming I had actually used all my fuel, my gas tank was at 100% capacity when I started, and my odometer was accurate. I'd like to imagine I was actually pretty close to 30mpg. That's also with no belly pan and whatever the plastic thing in the back is melted in half and flailing around for who knows how many miles (a hundred?), and 2 or 3 high-speed tests.
__________________
Freq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 01:22 PM   #52
Kevin Hawkinson
Better Red than Dead
 
Kevin Hawkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostdemon View Post
yeah it doesnt matter if its diesel, E85, veggie, woodburning, steam, electric hybrid, natural gas hybrid, etc... the standard will be the same. The idea is to get some ideas of what to build to get 35+mpg.
How many cords of wood = 35 gallons?
__________________
-Kevvie Hoikansanalainenen
Kevin Hawkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 02:02 PM   #53
McLovin
Board Member
 
McLovin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurableSwedish View Post
I can just about get that from driving the highway in my 88 245...Will I get a green name or something? how do we get verified?
I call shennanigans. The 245 is rated at like 21 highway with an auto and about 26 highway with a manual.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyote View Post
Then you Lick it, cut it, gut it, stuff it, lick it, twist it, lick it, spark it, then go to Jack in the Box.
1980 245 DL
1993 945Ti
McLovin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 03:23 PM   #54
casioqv
Mad Engineer
 
casioqv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NorCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdturbo View Post
Thats impressive on B99. My mileage goes to sh*t on b100. Its a consitant 5+mpg loss.
Interesting... other people I know with TDIs haven't noticed such a huge difference. Do you have vag-com? Have you tried playing with your injection timing and fuel mixture to see if you can regain the lost fuel economy on biodiesel?

I haven't been able to measure a difference in fuel economy between B99 and regular diesel in my 760, any difference is much less than the standard deviation of fuel economy due to other variables. Of course, I still can't get within 5mpg of what you get unless I only drive downhill with a tail-wind!
casioqv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 03:28 PM   #55
FattMatt805
juggalo
 
FattMatt805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carmichael, CA.
Default

i just got an average of 28.4 mpg in the 855T on a 500 mile round trip to the mountains, 80-90% of the trip was freeway, cruising 85-90mph, i assume i could probly get a better average if i stay out of boost and dont try to race porsche carrera turbos..lol
__________________
1998 V70 T5M, 245k 218WHP, 238TQ. 15.19@95mph
1996 855T *CRASHED*
1987 suzuki samurai, stock, rolled twice, removed antiroll bars, 30"AT
1977 F250. 460ci
1957 H.D. Sportster. Mothballed
FattMatt805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 05:04 PM   #56
Paddler Ed
Board Member
 
Paddler Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Armidale, NSW, Australia
Default

I've just done something in the region of 360 miles on around 58 litres of fuel; indicated 33.4mpg, with a best of just 34.something, before I drove to work today, and belted around the Welsh/English borders.
Paddler Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 10:03 PM   #57
klr142
Turbo, what?
 
klr142's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
I call shennanigans. The 245 is rated at like 21 highway with an auto and about 26 highway with a manual.
That's low, and it's easy to drive better than what cars are rated at if you know what you're doing and your car is in good shape. Also, an LH2.2 or 3.1 car will get better mileage than a 2.4 car almost all of the time. 2.2 runs lean, and 3.1 does SOMETHING(probably pays attention to the throttle position sensor) that allows it to get good mileage as well. It isn't hard for a good condition stock 5spd wagon with either of those computer systems to get over 30mpg on the highway. Drive it the right way in the right conditions and I have no doubt a completely stock 245 can get 35mpg. Lowering with still skinny'ish tires would help though.
klr142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 10:13 PM   #58
500dollar744ti
still rides with MrDoug
 
500dollar744ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Falls Church, VA
Default

289 miles on 7.1 gallons of fuel... suckas!
__________________
-Matt

1989 Volvo 744T- 16v turbo, '94 FD-block, RSI pistons/rods, GT35R, Tial 38mm, RFL, MSnS-E, DSM spark, 100lb Delphis, 4.6 springs, Bondo header, Heebspeed intake, Q45 90mm TB, Bosch 044 FP, 12x24x3 ebayIC, w/c t5, Clutchnet 4puck/PP, 4.10 G80, IPD sways, 960 brakes.
1998 Volvo S70 T5m- Stock, 229k
1998 Jeep Cherokee XJ- Stock, 154k
1983 Ford F150- '89 5.0 H.O, C6/4x4, F+R LSD 4.10, 7" lift, 35s.
1990 Cobia San Marino 225 ECS- MCM 350 Mag, GM Bowtie Intake, HR-Titan 19p.
500dollar744ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 10:25 PM   #59
MrBill
fige=500Dollar Mistake
 
MrBill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Default

lame. Your car meets the requirements pre-mods.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by grnmachine02 View Post
Someone say crazy rays?
1978 244dl - Down for paint/16vt
93 245 - Kaplhenke Shortened coilovers with adjustable Koni Reds, adjustable rear spring perches with revalved bilstein S-10 shocks. Turbo 2.5 motor in the works.
10 v50 - Unobtainium T5 R-Design AWD M66
MrBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2008, 10:44 PM   #60
500dollar744ti
still rides with MrDoug
 
500dollar744ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Falls Church, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBill View Post
lame. Your car meets the requirements pre-mods.
35mpg before turbo, 40mpg after turbo... mods increase power and efficiency... volkswagen did it to some stock n/a diesel jettas from teh factory and they were dubbed as "ecodiesel" cars. they boasted 25% gain in power and a 4 or 5mpg gain in economy.

that is basically what my car is, a vw jetta ecodiesel, in volvo trim.
500dollar744ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 12:00 AM   #61
Captain Slow
Guest
 
Default

Ok, I have decided to experiment with hydrogen injection. I've seen videos and done my research. It looks like it may get some good numbers. I'll report back with more as I start this little project.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 05:42 AM   #62
MikeHardy
The Sirius/Nova Police
 
MikeHardy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: northern Wales, UK
Default

my s70 did 44.2mpg on the round trip petes (50mpg on way down there chillin at 60mph)

thats 36.8mpg US
MikeHardy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 07:30 AM   #63
faster4_tec
Board Member
 
faster4_tec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunderland and LakeDistrict/Cumbria
Default

just rolled in about 42mpg (english) from a blast around the local fell roads in a saab 9-3 hot aero boosted courtesty of bsR, was maybe 100-110 miles, on open roads just cruised along, on the mountains gave it, enjoyed it, and still came back with awesome MPG. worst that car has ever got was around 16mpg (uk) that was on a track day @ croft LOL. car had to be trailored home as it ate its brand new front brakes + discs and 3tyres LOL
faster4_tec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 11:12 AM   #64
500dollar744ti
still rides with MrDoug
 
500dollar744ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Falls Church, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravennexus View Post
my s70 did 44.2mpg on the round trip petes (50mpg on way down there chillin at 60mph)

thats 36.8mpg US
2.0 ftw.
500dollar744ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 04:37 PM   #65
DR1665
Board Member
 
DR1665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
Default

Checking in, pretty much stock B230F/AW70. Recent maintenance includes the usual cap/rotor, plugs, wires, oil/filter change. Rolling shorter Yokohama AVS ES100s and get the speedo reading +5mph.

Typically 24mpg mixed driving.

Recently the PS belt bailed on me. This last tank came out to almost 26mpg.

Next order of business is a new air filter (K&N?) and plumbing adjustment to get it some better air, as well as a MAF cleaning. We'll see how that does for me.

I'm not as concerned with actual MPGs, so long as the changes I make show improvements. I can get anal about things and nail down the most accurate figures possible, but I think the trick is consistently tracking via the same methods.

With the speedo being 5mph fast, I drop 10% off the odo reading when I calculate. Makes me a bit curious, though. If the speedo is 5mph fast at 60, is it possible for it to be 5mph fast at 30? Perhaps I need to do that odo test after all? :P Would be nice if someone had a formula for making sense of the numbers.
__________________
86 245GL | sold to my father-in-law, staying on as chief mechanic
Tarmac & Gravel | 464 Stays Clean & 195 Gets Dirty
DR1665 | The Keyboard Rallyist.
DR1665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 04:48 PM   #66
lane stradler
Board Member
 
lane stradler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: boston
Default

the other day, i checked my odometer....
wow! talk about inaccurate! my stuff sez i'm going farther/faster than i really am.
first was a 18mile ride from manchester nh to the mass border on I93. my odometer said it was 19miles!!!!
then, from the mass border to just south of the big dig tunnel for 27miles.... my odometer said it was 28.6miles. thats almost a half mile for every 10miles... i dont think my tire size is that far off. just makes ya think. my gf's minivan was reading a slower/shorter than real mileage... but only like .1mile for every 10miles.
lane stradler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 05:50 AM   #67
casioqv
Mad Engineer
 
casioqv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NorCal
Default

Maybe we should make this the 30mpg club instead of 35mpg? I hate to be cynical, but I think that sdturbo is the only one on the board who actually has a chance of documenting over 35mpg as a long-term average. Even at 30mpg, I doubt we would get more than a few people whom could back up their economy claims.

You guys with D24s who say you get over 35mpg (500dollar744ti, Slobodan), can you provide some more data related to your fuel economy? Did you take a long term average over several tanks, and correct for odometer discrepencies? The reason I am skeptical, is because I have owned a lot of D24s/D24Ts and never got close to 35mpg averaged over multiple tanks. Often I would get well over 35mpg on a single tank, but then get less than 25mpg on the tank before or after. This is easily explained by the tank not being filled to the same level at each refill, rather than actually getting 35mpg. Some diesel pumps click off at much lower levels than others, and some diesel seems to foam more than others (most bio doesn't really foam at all) which can also change the point where the nozzle clicks off.

The D24T I have now is in better than new condition, and seems to average about 30mpg with my 3.91:1 rear axle, and it did about the same when the engine was installed in another 760 with a 3.54:1 axle. If you guys really are doing much better than me, I am curious what is different about your car, or how you drive it. I would imagine that if 500dollar744ti's fuel economy is due to lack of boost enrichment, then disconnecting the boost enrichment tube on a stock D24T should result in similar gains. When I saw Slobodan's car at the iPd sale, it appears to be running rich enough to fuel a turbo engine but without the turbo (his wagon's rear window was BLACK from soot).

Also, has anyone with a newer Volvo equipped with a digital fuel economy gauge on the dash verified the accuracy of the gauge?

Last edited by casioqv; 06-06-2008 at 05:59 AM..
casioqv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 08:19 AM   #68
500dollar744ti
still rides with MrDoug
 
500dollar744ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Falls Church, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
You guys with D24s who say you get over 35mpg (500dollar744ti, Slobodan), can you provide some more data related to your fuel economy? Did you take a long term average over several tanks, and correct for odometer discrepencies? The reason I am skeptical, is because I have owned a lot of D24s/D24Ts and never got close to 35mpg averaged over multiple tanks. Often I would get well over 35mpg on a single tank, but then get less than 25mpg on the tank before or after. This is easily explained by the tank not being filled to the same level at each refill, rather than actually getting 35mpg. Some diesel pumps click off at much lower levels than others, and some diesel seems to foam more than others (most bio doesn't really foam at all) which can also change the point where the nozzle clicks off.
the key is getting the fuel burned and not thrown out the tailpipe in clouds of smoke. in order to achieve your 80hp on a D24, the fuel has to be turned up and advanced somewhat to keep a drivable (LOL) power curve. in the early 90's vw came up with precisely what i have done, a stock n/a diesel with a turbo slapped on. it uses the n/a injection pump turned down to a reasonable setting to increase economy. the result was a 1992 Jetta Ecodiesel. the engine boasted 10 more hp than the n/a diesel motor and 5-10mpg better fuel economy. using the n/a pump with a turbo allows less fuel to be burned, the fuel to be burned more completely, and the result is a tad bit more power and lots more economy.

also note, my car came with a brand spanking new bosch injector pump that includes viton seals, i didn't ask for such a gift but it was included with the car. those of you with leaky, clattery, fuel wasting injector pumps are not going to get the top notch economy that can be had out of these cars.

i have experimented with the injector pump, i can turn the fuel all the way up until the car billows black smoke and is pretty fast. at that setting, the car struggles to get 20mpg. with the fuel turned down a touch less than stock n/a, i can still get more power than n/a and use less fuel to do it. in return, the motor doesn't work as hard to keep the brick of a car moving, and i strike a smile at the gas station.
500dollar744ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 09:47 AM   #69
klr142
Turbo, what?
 
klr142's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OR
Default

Averaging 35mpg over multiple tanks is something that many new cars can't achieve either. I think at least the ability to compare to newer, much more aerodynamic cars by getting over 35mpg on a tank(from full until dry just about is the only way to be very accurate) in one of these cars is a decent enough goal.
klr142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 03:34 PM   #70
Poik
Backwards Turbo
 
Poik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
Maybe we should make this the 30mpg club instead of 35mpg? I hate to be cynical, but I think that sdturbo is the only one on the board who actually has a chance of documenting over 35mpg as a long-term average. Even at 30mpg, I doubt we would get more than a few people whom could back up their economy claims.
As was said before, we aren't shooting for a long term average over several tanks. It was stated that this would be 35 highway miles per gallon.
__________________


Eric Olsson's 242 Turbo | 245 DL | 744 Turbo
Poik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 05:07 PM   #71
casioqv
Mad Engineer
 
casioqv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NorCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poik View Post
As was said before, we aren't shooting for a long term average over several tanks. It was stated that this would be 35 highway miles per gallon.
It is not possible to calculate fuel economy accurately without averaging over several tanks. IMO, it is necessary to take a long multiple-tank trip on the highway to determine the highway fuel economy of a vehicle. From my experience, both in-dash fuel economy gauges, and single tank calculations can be off by as much as 10mpg from what the car is actually getting making the results meaningless, and convincing many people that their cars are more efficient than they actually are....

A single tank calculation, without a correction factor for the odometer (how most people calculate their fuel economy) does not represent a statistically significant sample size for determining fuel economy. To really determine your fuel economy, you need enough tanks to both develop a long term average, and calculate your standard deviation about that average, to give you an idea of the stability and confidence of the calculated economy.

Just because it is difficult to calculate fuel economy doesn't mean we should have low standards. For example, in the 300hp club dyno test sheets are required. Allowing single tank averages would be the equivalent of letting people say "it feels like it has 300hp," in that neither have any mathematical significance.

It may be possible to accurately calculate fuel economy by driving only a short distance, if you installed some sort of high accuracy (coriolis effect?) set of flowmeters in your fuel lines, or hooked up a graduated cylinder of some sort as a temporary fuel tank but I really doubt that anyone would go to the trouble.

Without accurate data, the whole idea of a 35mpg club is pointless. People whom are getting 25mpg will THINK they are getting 35mpg, and others will try to re-produce their results without success.

I know my D24T gets only 30mpg, as I have collected data for many years- but I could still post numerous tanks where I got 35-40mpg. If I omit the fact that the bordering consecutive tanks deviated from the 30mpg by an equal amount in the opposite direction, then it appears to be "proof" that my car gets better highway mpg than it actually does.

Last edited by casioqv; 06-06-2008 at 05:14 PM..
casioqv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 05:47 PM   #72
boostdemon
creative mastermind
 
boostdemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Cary, NC
Default

the only problem with doing multiple tanks is the idea would be to get the mpg requirement on the highway... so that we have a trip calculator and fuel receipts to base the milage on. I'm not going to write out a trip planner through the city and then try to figure in all that.

We could require multiple trip reports? or yearly re-qualification
__________________

"Flathood" Owners | Motorcyclists | Guitarists
boostdemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 06:09 PM   #73
Poik
Backwards Turbo
 
Poik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Default

I check my mileage every time I fill up any of my cars. It is always within +/- 2mpg, depending on how I drive. I don't see how you think it would be +/- 10mpg.
Poik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 11:03 PM   #74
boostdemon
creative mastermind
 
boostdemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Cary, NC
Default

yes, every time i fill up the 245 from normal driving its pretty much on the spot 19.5mpg -/+ 0.5mpg
same car on a road trip... 30mpg
boostdemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2008, 12:00 AM   #75
klr142
Turbo, what?
 
klr142's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OR
Default

Exactly. Tyler, things are not nearly as far off as you are saying, unless the stuff you fill up and the people who fill you up are a bit wonky. Or something.
klr142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.