home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2018, 09:25 AM   #26
intothelabyrinth
Board Member
 
intothelabyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Default

I wouldn't think so...
__________________
1986 245 Auto (RIP)
1986 245 Auto (RIP)
1988 245, M47 (My Daily)
1989 245 Auto California Car
1999 V70 T5 Auto (Girlfriend's Daily)

brokedownbrick.wordpress.com
intothelabyrinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 01:24 PM   #27
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

PM sent to you centason, question about the airtex. Thanks.
__________________
Ralph
1984 242 DL (Phase 7 maintenance and upgrades underway)
http://242vision.clearascent.com
2007 S80 V8
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 01:31 PM   #28
hiperfauto
Board Member
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rporzio View Post
I'm also wondering about my sending unit. Purchased and installed back in 2010 during the original resto we never heard of reversed wiring from the vendor. Would the fuel system have worked so long before starting to fail if the wiring was reversed? R.
Going by the price you paid for the replacement sending unit, you probably got a VDO which were wired correctly. The aftermarket senders were usually under $100.


image courtesy of cleanflametrap.com
hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 01:37 PM   #29
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

thanks hiper, I did see that pic. Just went out and started the car with the wires to the in tank pump reversed with clips but it didn't make any difference. Tomorrow I'll start looking at the grounds in different locations. R.
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 02:45 PM   #30
oldschoolvolvo
Board Member
 
oldschoolvolvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default

I’d pull the hose off of the input to the main pump, jumper the fuses to turn on the tank pump and see if the tank pump moves any fuel. If you hear it running but no fuel is coming out of the hose, then try switching the + and - wires to the pump and redo the test.

Edit: never mind, I see you’ve already tested for actual fuel flow
__________________
-Mike
1998 V70 T5
1979 242 DL+T |Project Thread| |Feedback|
oldschoolvolvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 03:32 PM   #31
centason
CNT-FAI
 
centason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ft.Mill, SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rporzio View Post
PM sent to you centason, question about the airtex. Thanks.
Got nothing from you.
__________________
Member: TBCCS
"The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic." -H. L. Mencken
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
Yes, but I keep having the dream of shoving the Cocaine up my ass!
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgothan View Post
Ohh god no, I'd rather eat hot diarrhea than drive a 7/9
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFridge View Post
You sons of bitches are the biggest thread de-railers in forum history.
Any forums history.
centason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 03:34 PM   #32
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Clean the ground and make sure all connections are good. Poor connections could burn stuff out. At the fuel pump relay and power wiring too.
__________________
No Start Thread
ZVOLV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 04:16 PM   #33
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

Thanks Zvolv, do you know off hand exactly where the ground for the fuel pump relay is and what terminal it connects to? Left of the shifter on the driveshaft tunnel? Ralph
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 04:49 PM   #34
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

It's under the back seat. You can do a voltage drop test on it to test it.

I thought it was in this pic, but nope. Here is one way to check current draw of the pump with a scope and amp clamp. Without one, you could just put a meter in line with the circuit and see whatcha get.

ZVOLV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 05:13 PM   #35
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

Wow, way back there? I figured it would be up front under the dash somewhere near to the relay itself. Tomorrow, I'll start looking at these connections. I really appreciate your help! R.
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 05:19 PM   #36
hiperfauto
Board Member
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

He's talking about the main fuel pump ground. The ground for the relay is on the tunnel.

hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 05:23 PM   #37
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Resistance test the ground wire is a good idea too. Inspect for chafing or bad wiring under the car too.
ZVOLV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 06:36 AM   #38
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

before I dig in and start my troubleshooting I want to let everyone know that every time we change out the pumps the car runs fine for a few days before the external pump starts making noise and eventually the car fails. Right now the car is running and driving fine except for the main pump whining and the relay slightly vibrating so wouldn't that lead us to believe that it would be something wrong inside the tank like the rust mentioned before or the sending unit power reversal issue? Why run fine for awhile and then die consistently and after changing out the pumps the cycle repeats? Things that make you pause and say hmmmm... Ralph
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 09:33 AM   #39
RacerX
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NW Indiana
Default

Did you replace any hoses during the process? A kinked hose will starve, then kill the Main Fuel Pump.

A replacement fuel sender had a different angle and eventually kinked on me.
RacerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 09:40 AM   #40
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

thanks racer, yes at one point we did have a problem with the hose on the in tank pump. I just jumper tested both pumps and heard them both start so next I tink id like to try and find the ground to the pump relay and after that try to take the sender unit out myself to see what I can see, especially since you mentioned a hose issue... Ralph
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 10:04 AM   #41
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

Before I go much further will you all correct me if I'm wrong? Didn't I just test the grounds for both pumps by jumping power at the fuse panel to each one and make them spin? If ground wasn't present at either site they wouldn't have turned on right? R.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1177-Edit.jpg (85.2 KB, 74 views)
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 10:45 AM   #42
TestPoint
Board Member
 
TestPoint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ellijay
Default

A corroded ground will reduce the voltage and current to the motor.
__________________


1982 Volvo 245 with a Ford 302 V8

Ford V8 Conversion Manual -
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=250257

Bertone Restoration - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=256460
TestPoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:00 AM   #43
intothelabyrinth
Board Member
 
intothelabyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Default

Ground may be present, but is it a GOOD ground? That is the question you answer with the resistance tests... Sometimes you could have a marginal ground, you can test and find 12 volts, but then find out later that it wasn't quite good enough to carry the amps needed. Think of it like a water pipe... it could be blocked by 80% and you would still see some flow out the other side. If you don't measure the volume and just check that there is some flow you aren't really seeing the whole picture.
intothelabyrinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:09 AM   #44
intothelabyrinth
Board Member
 
intothelabyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Default

A quick and dirty way to see that you do indeed have enough real current able to flow is to use a brake light or similar incandescent bulb wired up as a test light. They pull a good amount of amps, so if it lights up as bright as it should you can be pretty sure you are getting not only voltage, but also enough current...
intothelabyrinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:11 AM   #45
intothelabyrinth
Board Member
 
intothelabyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Default

That relay clicking on and off has got to be the root of the problem. It is either the relay itself, or the wiring.... have you re-flowed the solder on all the connections inside the relay yet?
intothelabyrinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:21 AM   #46
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothelabyrinth View Post
That relay clicking on and off has got to be the root of the problem. It is either the relay itself, or the wiring.... have you re-flowed the solder on all the connections inside the relay yet?
/\ /\ /\ I'm not quite sure what the clicking relay is doing to the current flow to the pump, but it can't be good.

I know sometimes people run a varying duty cycle to a fuel pump so it's not pumping LOADS OF FUEL when it doesn't need to, but that's usually at a much higher frequency. If the relay clicking is at a much lower frequency where the pump mechanically speeds up and slows down constantly it could be overstressing it.

Clicking relay would seem to be an issue with the circuit that powers the relay, not as much to do with what the relay itself is turning on and off (the fuel pumps).

Last page of this PDF: http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/v...240%201984.pdf

Shows the relay getting switched 12V+ on one side of the relay (terminal 86) from the ignition switch, and the ECU grounding the other side to turn on the relay (terminal 85 on the relay, goes to terminal 17on the ECU). That is the circuit that turns the relay on and off, if it's buzzing, it's either issues with the switched 12V coming to #86, or the ground to the ECU from #85, or an internal fault in the relay itself.

As a quick and dirty test, I'd use a jumper wire and ground #85 when the car is running, and the relay is buzzing. See if the buzzing stops. If so, there's some sort of issue either in the ECU, or in the wire between relay terminal 85 and ecu 17.
__________________
'63 PV Rat Rod
'93 245 16VT Classic #1141
JohnMc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:26 AM   #47
rporzio
Board Member
 
rporzio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

That's excellent advice (and exactly what I was looking for with the ground), thank you. I'll try that this afternoon. The relay is not buzzing so loud as to make a noise but I can feel it vibrating with a touch. R. We're talking about the ECU in the passenger foot well correct?
rporzio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:27 AM   #48
intothelabyrinth
Board Member
 
intothelabyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Default

As far as I know this relay just runs the pumps constantly when the car is running. Any excess fuel is just recirculated back to the tank... If the relay is clicking it is turning the power on and off to the pumps...
intothelabyrinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:30 AM   #49
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

I wasn't trying to say that Volvo is using a duty cycle to reduce the pump output, just that sometimes on high-performance cars with huge pumps they run the pump on a reduced duty cycle without harming the pump. But in this case, the problem with the relay may be doing it at a low enough frequency to damage the pump. It was a pointless sidebar.
JohnMc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 11:50 AM   #50
intothelabyrinth
Board Member
 
intothelabyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Default

Got ya.
intothelabyrinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.