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T5 or Getrag Alternatives? (Read: you can punch me in the face for .25c)

E

EivlEvo

Active member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Crew... So I'm well aware that the T5 is the defacto manual swap with the Getrag as a distant second for those in the US at least.

Since the T5 requires essentially the same amount of custom work, I was wondering if anyone had considered or looked into alternatives to the T5? I know that the T5 is touted for being cheaply available and reliable, but even yanking a box out of the yard for ~$200, I'm going to need to open the stupid thing up to get a look at it. I'm going to need a clutch, an adapter, the proper shaft, and a driveshaft made or adapted. All this for gearing that is... not bad, but I'm going out on a limb to suggest that it isn't really ideal.

Anyhow... I didn't know if anyone significantly more in the know had alternatives worth considering? What about 6 speeds (yes I know we're talking hydraulic clutches at this point)...

Is the T5 STILL the most obvious swap? Are there other transmissions that are similarly sized that might be worth a look in the yard/ebay?

The AW71 with the accumulator mod is nice, but I'm going to die with this tragimatic crap.

Line for face punching starts here ---->:)
 
There has to be much better transmissions out there nowadays. I really liked the BMW one i saw pics of with a new bellhousing welded on.
 
The biggest benefit to the T5 when being stateside, is that almost all of the work is done for you and it's been made to be a near bolt in affair after you spend a bit of money.

ZVOLV said:
I really liked the BMW one i saw pics of with a new bellhousing welded on.
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Yup, BMW ZF Boxes, mostly from the E36/M3 (S5D-310Z and the like - some use the 530D others I hear have something working from the E46 stuff? Haven't looked into those). Usually M46/M47 bell is welded to the ZF box, there's some stuff with the input shaft too but it's hazy... doing some drinking for year end activities.

Not the most straightforward or cost conscious thing but it's definitely an option... John V will probably chime in stating how the ratios suck, and he's right, as 1st gear is pretty much useless (wheel spin city baby!). Highway cruising was alright, I'd need to go through my videos/data and get back to you on that. You'd also need a shaft for it, that's another few hundred give or take(totally ignoring the whole flywheel/clutch/hydraulics items to sort out).
 
Anyone thought of a 5 speed auto trans swap for a redblock? Myself I'm past the years of tolerating a manual trans and a clutch pedal.
 
MDVLN said:
The biggest benefit to the T5 when being stateside, is that almost all of the work is done for you and it's been made to be a near bolt in affair after you spend a bit of money.



Yup, BMW ZF Boxes, mostly from the E36/M3 (S5D-310Z and the like - some use the 530D others I hear have something working from the E46 stuff? Haven't looked into those). Usually M46/M47 bell is welded to the ZF box, there's some stuff with the input shaft too but it's hazy... doing some drinking for year end activities.

Not the most straightforward or cost conscious thing but it's definitely an option... John V will probably chime in stating how the ratios suck, and he's right, as 1st gear is pretty much useless (wheel spin city baby!). Highway cruising was alright, I'd need to go through my videos/data and get back to you on that. You'd also need a shaft for it, that's another few hundred give or take(totally ignoring the whole flywheel/clutch/hydraulics items to sort out).
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I agree with the T5... but it "isn't" bolt in. An adapter is still needed, at the bell and the driveshaft, and the ratios still really aren't ideal. The guys that are machining the adapters probably don't care what adapter they're machining... as long as they have an stl file they can machine whatever is needed. So then... why deal with the T5?

lummert said:
Anyone thought of a 5 speed auto trans swap for a redblock? Myself I'm past the years of tolerating a manual trans and a clutch pedal.
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I'm surprised at how mediocre the gearing is in the AW71 honestly... I spent some hard years perfecting my RWD craft in a Panther platform in the icy north that is the upper midwest... the slushbox in that was cruddy, but fine. This Volvo one is decidedly... meh.

I'm drinking champagne out of a beer glass currently... so all of the above is just babbling.
 
The deal with the T-5 is the choices of ratios, including aftermarket, especially the 2.95 ratio gearbox with a 3.73 and up rear end. You can make these cars pretty fast without a lot of power. Plus they are a dime a dozen and cheap. You can swap gearsets for ~$500 for a complete set.

Auto, I'd run a TH200-4r. Ratios are great.
 
Champagne? Need to get on that TB diet of Tecate and PBR. Bourbon guy myself...

EivlEvo said:
I agree with the T5... but it "isn't" bolt in. An adapter is still needed, at the bell and the driveshaft, and the ratios still really aren't ideal.
Click to expand...

MDVLN said:
a near bolt in affair after you spend a bit of money.
Click to expand...
I agree with your sentiment, but I also tried my best to make sure I didn't mix words there ;-)

NEAR Bolt in affair, AFTER you spend some amounts of coin --- Purchase of adapter plate to volvo bellhousing to interface with the transmission, then the driveshaft/rear end ordeal (Volvo 240) or having driveshaft made(7/9) and the related items --- the ancillary bits --- flywheel/clutch/cabling/input shaft depending on gearbox/pilot bearing, clutch friction disk and pressure plate itself...yadda yadda...

By "almost all of the work is done for you[...]" there are a few vendors that thankfully still offer options to complete the swap without having to get too creative.

Even I hate to admit it, but for these old cars, that's probably as good as it'll ever get.

Why deal with the BW T5? Ignoring the availability of that gearbox and the aftermarket/parts availability for it, that's down to preference. One could argue about ratios all day and sure they aren't the best when compared to more "modern" gearbox designs but there's also the argument of adapting to the application; More Preference.

RE: Machining: Maybe they care, maybe not. I can't speak for any of the vendors still making stuff for our decidedly small community when compared to other marques. One could argue if they didn't care they wouldn't bother, but now we're definitely playing with words at that point.

I can't speak on autos behind a redblock, usually when people do it's for a GM 4spd auto to drag with.
 
T5 is an easy swap but a horrible transmission.

I loved the two getrag cars I used to ride in an drive.

I just finally heard about being able to use a getrag with the bmw bellhousing with an adapter so I so need to go that route.
 
No matter what transmission choice you make (manual box) you are gonna need most of what is needed for a T5 swap. If the money if the only factor for looking at other alternative, then honestly the T5 can't be beat for price right now. With a bit more money out of your pocket most of the swap part can be bought and little to no fabrication is left to the end user.

I would really like to start adapting 350z 6 speed or 'yota manual box out of the supra but the box itself will cost about half of a T5 swap, driving 98% of the potential sales away. I know that the T5 isn't the best tranmission out of here nobody is gonna lie about that, we are talking about a design and assembly that is 25 years old. It's a good thing they are popular so aftermarket part and gearset are readily available as well as a few upgrade to make them feel smoother to run. Not only the volvo guys uses them with their dettachable BH.
 
Smaller BMW ZF GS6-37DZ(diesel) or -BZ for milder applications, can take at least 700Nm torque. Bigger GS6-53DZ or -BZ can handle around 1000Nm. I have both in use behind "T6" engines and they fit quite well in to 240 tunnel. Naturally small hammering is needed but nothing excessive. Needs to have Volvo bell welded for proper fitment. There are some adapters available also but I would recommend bellhousing mod. Though -53BZ bellhousings are quite big and might need an adapter for joining with Volvo bell.

First gear is short in both diesel versions. With -37DZ and 3.73(maybe even 3.54) rear you can start with 2nd gear and drive it like a 5 speed(6 is overdrive). First is good for going uphill with heavier tow :p -53DZ and 3.31 rear is in the middle ground for drag racing. First is a bit too short but 2nd is a bit too long. In daily use it's not so bad. And these take gear changes quite fast.
 
Roger-Dee said:
No matter what transmission choice you make (manual box) you are gonna need most of what is needed for a T5 swap. If the money if the only factor for looking at other alternative, then honestly the T5 can't be beat for price right now. With a bit more money out of your pocket most of the swap part can be bought and little to no fabrication is left to the end user.

I would really like to start adapting 350z 6 speed or 'yota manual box out of the supra but the box itself will cost about half of a T5 swap, driving 98% of the potential sales away. I know that the T5 isn't the best tranmission out of here nobody is gonna lie about that, we are talking about a design and assembly that is 25 years old. It's a good thing they are popular so aftermarket part and gearset are readily available as well as a few upgrade to make them feel smoother to run. Not only the volvo guys uses them with their dettachable BH.
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The 350Z 6 speed was actually the box I was looking hard at.

How are you all getting your T5's so cheap? Even if you get a box from a yard for $200 you're still going to need to rebuild the thing... which is another $300 min. So now you're at $500 for a trans that's kind of meh... I feel like there'd be less money spent on a solid 6 speed trans overall no?
 
We have the opposite problem here in the UK. A T5 out of a Fox Body Mustang is typically around ?400, yet a 5 speed ZF 'box from a BMW 530D can be had for half of that. Chances are that the T5 will need a rebuild and the ZF won't!
 
EivlEvo said:
The 350Z 6 speed was actually the box I was looking hard at.

How are you all getting your T5's so cheap? Even if you get a box from a yard for $200 you're still going to need to rebuild the thing... which is another $300 min. So now you're at $500 for a trans that's kind of meh... I feel like there'd be less money spent on a solid 6 speed trans overall no?
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A tranny swap is going to run you close to a grand even if you don't crack open the case with all the clutch and adapter plate and driveline ish to worry about. It is what it is.

Run what you can with what you have available. The JY I frequented when I lived in ATL had zero T5's and all getrags. I ran a getrag.

I hear what I think you're saying and you want to get the most out of your money. T5's can live a nice long life behind a redblock. The nice thing about the swap is that it can be done in stages so it doesn't kill you all at once.

What do you really want to do with the car?
 
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740atl said:
A tranny swap is going to run you close to a grand even if you don't crack open the case with all the clutch and adapter plate and driveline ish to worry about. It is what it is.

Run what you can with what you have available. The JY I frequented when I lived in ATL had zero T5's and all getrags. I ran a getrag.

I hear what I think you're saying and you want to get the most out of your money. T5's can live a nice long life behind a redblock. The nice thing about the swap is that it can be done in stages so it doesn't kill you all at once.

What do you really want to do with the car?
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Yeah... my point is basically that if we're adapting a trans to the car, is the T5 the best option. So yeah... most for money. At the time, it no doubt was... now, I'm not certain.

Regarding what I want to do with the car... who even knows. I have my Evo 9 for my fast car. The Volvo was originally snagged to use as my winter beater/rally x turd, but then I ended up moving south, and with an Audi 5kTQ. We also have a classic Saab 900 for trolling about.

So the Volvo is just a sleeper wagon that I can rip around in I guess. I'll probably start hitting up the drift events and VIR once we get a bit more settled down here. But... the auto man... it doesn't inspire confidence for me.

It's like riding a bicycle with clipless pedals (I've raced bicycles for some 15+ years now)... after being so accustomed to rock solid foot retention, when you ride a bike with just flat pedals, it's kind of scary to get up out of the saddle.

I also have my M47, but it seems like an effort in futility to just swap it in due to breakage.

A solid 6 speed would be quite nice though. Aside from the many upsides to the Evo, one of them is proper gearing for a turbocharged car of that nature.
 
EivlEvo said:
Yeah... my point is basically that if we're adapting a trans to the car, is the T5 the best option. So yeah... most for money. At the time, it no doubt was... now, I'm not certain.

Regarding what I want to do with the car... who even knows. I have my Evo 9 for my fast car. The Volvo was originally snagged to use as my winter beater/rally x turd, but then I ended up moving south, and with an Audi 5kTQ. We also have a classic Saab 900 for trolling about.

So the Volvo is just a sleeper wagon that I can rip around in I guess. I'll probably start hitting up the drift events and VIR once we get a bit more settled down here. But... the auto man... it doesn't inspire confidence for me.

It's like riding a bicycle with clipless pedals (I've raced bicycles for some 15+ years now)... after being so accustomed to rock solid foot retention, when you ride a bike with just flat pedals, it's kind of scary to get up out of the saddle.

I also have my M47, but it seems like an effort in futility to just swap it in due to breakage.

A solid 6 speed would be quite nice though. Aside from the many upsides to the Evo, one of them is proper gearing for a turbocharged car of that nature.
Click to expand...

The best trans that meets those driving goals and bang for the buck is an accumulator modded aw71. Night and day difference in performance. Feels like you're driving a stick sometimes the shifts are so solid. Think about it.
 
740atl said:
The best trans that meets those driving goals and bang for the buck is an accumulator modded aw71. Night and day difference in performance. Feels like you're driving a stick sometimes the shifts are so solid. Think about it.
Click to expand...

I currently have that. Not being able to select a gear is great for drag racing... that's about it though.
 
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