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Old 01-08-2015, 01:05 PM   #1
HiSPL
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Default New owner '96 964, Is stock ECU tunable?

Hey all. Got my first brick yesterday! A 96 960 sedan with the B6304. It's got over 252k miles on it, but the owners manual shows dealer service stamps for the first 150k miles! Engine runs very very smooth and quiet. Very little smoke from dipstick but will be cleaning PCV asap. Also smokes from exhaust after idling. Will probably need valve guides too.

Anyway, I'd like to build this as a DD and keep it NA. I'm planning: headers, full exhaust without a Cat. Modifying oem airbox for CAI, and maybe the early cams. That will be all of the "performance" mods I do to this car. What I want to know is, can the factory ecu be tuned? Or does it have to be converted to an aftermarket ecu to do any tuning? Since I'm not boosting, I am hoping to find a few more HP with a dyno/tune session. I'd also like to be able to "degree" the cams.

I've searched, but the only info I can find is people converting to megasquirt or the like. Is the factory ecu non-flashable? Or is just because so many people go the +T route that they need aftermarket computers?


Thanks!
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:07 PM   #2
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I forgot to mention, My preference is to pull all of the emissions stuff from the car as well. There is no emission testing where I live. I'd like to lighten up, and clean up that engine bay! I'd like to tune out the CEL's that would cause....
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:48 PM   #3
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Should be tunable: http://m44.wikia.com/wiki/M44_Wiki

They have lots of good possibilities for the 5-cylinder ECU's.

Assuming your car has M4.4.

My plan is to use M4.4 on a T6 engine but that will take a while before the engine is assembled and in a car..
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:38 PM   #4
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Why would you rip out the emissions equipment?
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:27 PM   #5
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Why would you rip out the emissions equipment?
Because racecar
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JW240 View Post
Should be tunable: http://m44.wikia.com/wiki/M44_Wiki

They have lots of good possibilities for the 5-cylinder ECU's.

Assuming your car has M4.4.

My plan is to use M4.4 on a T6 engine but that will take a while before the engine is assembled and in a car..
Sweet Titties.

I have been googling with this info. It seems that the M4.4 was brought about to comply with OBD2 compliance. Since my car is OBD2 (I've been using the Torque app already) I can be reasonably sure that it is a M4.4, right?

Awesome. I'm gonna start logging my MAF sensor and looking at befores and afters while modding the airbox!
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:31 PM   #7
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Because racecar
ummm...No it is not....
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:50 PM   #8
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What is all of this emissions stuff under the hood that you speak of?
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:41 PM   #9
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Because racecar
Because dumb
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:02 PM   #10
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Thumbs up Yep: M4.4

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...I can be reasonably sure that it is a M4.4, right?
Hi and yes, it's an M4.4!

I'm driving a '96 960-2 2.5 over here in Europe and recently started thinking about seriously looking into TunerPro myself, since 'nobody' is tuning stock 960-ECUs. Only thing (for a start) I'd like to have is more power below 2500/3000rpm, above that there's enough for me. Started a discussion over here about changing to a larger throttle body to see what that does; already have a BMC style air filter box. Recorded some drives with DashCommand which, as an indication of course (depends on the correct parameters you fill in), still gave me 165 ponys under the hood, air flow 139 g/sec @ 6500rpm:



Been wanting to run a real dyno for years and happened to find out yesterday that there is a guy just like 6km's away , who is seriously working with dragrace bikes and has got his own dyno !!!

So, yes: it's M4.4. Let's keep in contact...
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:34 PM   #11
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You will need a flash file (.bin) formatted for use in TunerPro; and an ADX and XDF files to read and display the data in the bin appropriately. There may already be one converted, since the COP data was used for the T5 COP conversion. Look through the m44 wikia.

You will need to build the harness adaptor for flashing the ECU insitu, and the listed VAG-COM cable for data logging on a laptop

So, go do some reading
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:39 PM   #12
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Why would you rip out the emissions equipment?
Because it's worthless crap. Definitely don't need the SAS pump & plumbing, or the rear 02 (for cat delete). Or were you being facetious?
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:51 PM   #13
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Thanks Dree!


Since this is my first day of ownership, I'm still working on a stage 0 tune. Once I get there, I will start messing with the tuner. Luckily, there is a dyno shop in my town.



As far as why to delete the emissions crap. 75% of the time when something goes wrong, it's emissions related. Sometimes, this leads to broken stuff in the engine. Also, you cause more global warming mowing your yard with a mower than driving to work in your modern I6. Plus, engines are supposed to smell. Smells like victory.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:19 PM   #14
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I would run a cat regardless. The SAS stuff you can take or leave, Its not really gonna gain you much power either way.

If you are going to redo the exhaust, there is no harm in running a high flow cat.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by lookforjoe View Post
Because it's worthless crap. Definitely don't need the SAS pump & plumbing, or the rear 02 (for cat delete). Or were you being facetious?
SAS pump, sure. But a high flow cat isn't going to be doing anything negative worth writing home about
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:35 PM   #16
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Might ask KLR142 if he ever had any success with the tunerpro route. Its doable with enough determination. I saw a few other names I recognized on ecuproject.com, someone's bound to have been silly enough to do this already
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:16 AM   #17
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SCT offers the tuning of 960/S/V90 (both the motronic 1.8 & 4.4), numbers are 204 -> 220hp and 267 -> 285Nm, fuel N98+. ECU has to be sent to them and will be returned with a new chip. 2500SEK (~$350). info@sct-competition.se
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:39 AM   #18
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SCT offers the tuning of 960/S/V90 (both the motronic 1.8 & 4.4), numbers are 204 -> 220hp and 267 -> 285Nm, fuel N98+. ECU has to be sent to them and will be returned with a new chip. 2500SEK (~$350). info@sct-competition.se
It's not listed on their site.
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:48 AM   #19
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MegaSquirt, because.
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Old 01-09-2015, 05:37 PM   #20
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It's not listed on their site.
No it is not, thats why I am listing it here.
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Old 01-09-2015, 05:51 PM   #21
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No it is not, thats why I am listing it here.
Interesting, because they offer Rica chiptuning, which in basics is a Dutch (and Swedish?) company. Happens to be that I live in the Netherlands, so I'm going to send them an email to see if they can provide a chip for a 2.5 (170hp) as well, although not on their site. And ask for the 204hp chip, in case anyone might be interested.

Although doing it yourself will be much more fun and give way more satisfaction! Way more study by the way as well.
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Old 01-11-2015, 06:13 AM   #22
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Dree, you live near Jeroen vd Belt ? vdbworks I Guess :P
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:53 AM   #23
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Hi Mr. Stroopwafel,

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Dree, you live near Jeroen vd Belt ? vdbworks I Guess :P
Yep, that's him! His website (sorry for all non-Dutch readers, it's in Dutch , but with pictures )
Actually I was wondering whether you two know each other! I guess that's a yes...

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Old 01-11-2015, 11:35 AM   #24
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i can offer custom ecu tunes for m4,4 if wanted.. and much more than standard ignition fuel and lambda . i can tune response catalytic recondition disable rear lambda torque reduction in gears to just mention a few so far i am one of very few that can tune almost anything in This ecu
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:58 AM   #25
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Are you able to do the same for m1.8 (960 -95)? Really interested if so...
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