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Old 05-20-2011, 07:46 AM   #1
MadDog_945
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Default Building a TwinScroll Header

Hi.. since i have enough cash to buy a TigWelder with integrated Plasmacutter , im now in the position to buy some mandrelbends..

What do i need to have? How many Elbows 45° , 90° how many metres? :D

What diameter, wallthickness? Is there a masterplan of guiding the runners for a special turbo position?

ordering will be done here

http://server3.gs-shop.de/200/cgi-bi...nbieterID=4423

Thx so far ppl
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:23 AM   #2
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Uh !! And do i need two wastegate for both pairs or is it possible to use one?
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Old 05-20-2011, 09:29 AM   #3
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I'm gettin ready for a hella busy weekend with the ipd car show......but ill pm you later about this. I know others will have great ideas for you.....compile them all and get your Tig'on! If you end up using the same material I do, I'm sure I could make a paper template of my cut jig for the collector and mail it flat to you. The collector is almost the hardest part....besides piping your primarys to tight so you can't get in there and weld it out! Sometimes I have to cut a primary out....bench weld and reinstall. Twin scrolls are fun.
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Old 05-20-2011, 06:14 PM   #4
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Not sure what material you're planning on using, but there's a pretty decent thread about a guy building some simple turbo headers from 304SS here: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45112
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:15 PM   #5
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Not trying to take away from this forum but Honda-tech.com has a very good fabrication forum if you want to get ideas and help. I learned how to make manifolds from that forum and some of the fabricators that post are second to none.

http://www.honda-tech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53

1.5" 304 schedule 10 should be all you need and its way cheaper to buy 90's and cut them. To get the full effect two gates are needed.

Heres a divided manifold I made for my friends k20 powered bug,

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Old 05-20-2011, 11:37 PM   #6
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Was reading an turbo article in Hot Rod(or Car Craft/Popular Hot Rodding forget which) and it was said it helps to pair up the firing order sequence cylinders in pairs. Better spool time was the claim. The OEM Volvo n/a cast iron mani even does this.

Last edited by smokeyfan1000; 11-03-2012 at 07:44 PM..
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55superbeetle View Post
Not trying to take away from this forum but Honda-tech.com has a very good fabrication forum if you want to get ideas and help. I learned how to make manifolds from that forum and some of the fabricators that post are second to none.

http://www.honda-tech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53

1.5" 304 schedule 10 should be all you need and its way cheaper to buy 90's and cut them. To get the full effect two gates are needed.

Heres a divided manifold I made for my friends k20 powered bug,



Whoa.. sexy

Do you dump the wastegate to atmosphere or do i miss the ju`nction behind the downpipe?
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog_945 View Post
Hi.. since i have enough cash to buy a TigWelder with integrated Plasmacutter , im now in the position to buy some mandrelbends..

What do i need to have? How many Elbows 45° , 90° how many metres? :D
Only buy 90 degree weld els. 45 degree weld els are about the same price as 90 degree ones (in other words, they're twice as expensive. Just cut a 90 degree el in half).

Quote:
What diameter, wallthickness? Is there a masterplan of guiding the runners for a special turbo position?

1.5" schedule 10 stainless is pretty much the standard. It's 0.109" thick. No real master plan, other than that on a twin scroll you'll want to pair 1-4 and 2-3 together.

Twin scroll collectors are quite easy, because you only have to fit 2 runners together.

Trying to run a single wastegate on a twin scroll manifold gets ugly, fast. You need to keep the plumbing divided right up to the gate, otherwise you lose a lot of the advantage of going to a divided setup.

I would run twin 38mm Tial MVS gates, they're fairly cheap, and quite small and easy to package.

Couple examples of divided manifolds i've made over the years:

Sched 10 stainless, being set up for twin gates:



16ga 1.625" set up for single gate (not reccomended):
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:53 AM   #9
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Ok,

I have found a new dealer for stainless fittings.. but they only have 33,7mm 40mm or 42,4mm all with 2mm wall

is 2mm too thin? 2,54mm is 0.100" and what diameter would be best?
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:06 AM   #10
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Wanted to build a turbo header for my Audi, but it was to much of a project. Anyhow, I checked the internet and also wrote with Nathan.
For the material 304l (1.4307) a lot of people are using.
321 (1.4541) seems to be even better but more expensive.
http://www.schoch-edelstahl.de/produ...-bauart-3.html
Got an offer from a company in Austria. 11€ for one 90° bend 1.4541 in 38 x 2,5mm.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:17 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bondo View Post
Only buy 90 degree weld els. 45 degree weld els are about the same price as 90 degree ones (in other words, they're twice as expensive. Just cut a 90 degree el in half).




1.5" schedule 10 stainless is pretty much the standard. It's 0.109" thick. No real master plan, other than that on a twin scroll you'll want to pair 1-4 and 2-3 together.

Twin scroll collectors are quite easy, because you only have to fit 2 runners together.

Trying to run a single wastegate on a twin scroll manifold gets ugly, fast. You need to keep the plumbing divided right up to the gate, otherwise you lose a lot of the advantage of going to a divided setup.

I would run twin 38mm Tial MVS gates, they're fairly cheap, and quite small and easy to package.

Couple examples of divided manifolds i've made over the years:

Sched 10 stainless, being set up for twin gates:


that guy looks familiar.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triebwerk View Post
Got an offer from a company in Austria. 11€ for one 90° bend 1.4541 in 38 x 2,5mm.
Thats way too expensive dont you think? My offer was 2,17€+VAT for a 40mm/2mm bend V2A
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:39 AM   #13
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I've seen people use one large wastegate, with a divider in the tube. The divider protrudes past the v-band into the wastegate

http://www.turborangerforums.com/vbi...yimg&imgid=144

http://www.turborangerforums.com/vbi...yimg&imgid=143
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldmandan View Post
I've seen people use one large wastegate, with a divider in the tube. The divider protrudes past the v-band into the wastegate

http://www.turborangerforums.com/vbi...yimg&imgid=144

http://www.turborangerforums.com/vbi...yimg&imgid=143

Thats what I did on my Ebay header I bought for my 2j.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog_945 View Post
Ok,

I have found a new dealer for stainless fittings.. but they only have 33,7mm 40mm or 42,4mm all with 2mm wall

is 2mm too thin? 2,54mm is 0.100" and what diameter would be best?
2mm wall would be ok. You would want the 40mm or 42,4mm diameter.

If you're going to the effort of building a twin scroll manifold, I would use 2 wastegates if you have the space. The single with a divider is ok, but 2 wastegates is the ideal.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:38 AM   #16
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Thx


As flange material? 8 oder 10mm ?


/edit

yeah and for sure i will go the dualWG way.. when do, do it right ;)

So im looking for a good but affordable one... the TIALs are way too expensive.. thy are 320dollars here in germany each... thats the price i pay for a car :D

38mm woulkd be enough right ? hard to find in good china quality with V-Band
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:02 AM   #17
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I like my MVS they are nice and tight, easy to get on and off. Keep an eye open on the used market, I bought my second that way and saved close to 50% off the original price. I've seen a bunch of external gate act funky, I wanted something reliable for those 25+ psi run where you don't have a second to watch the boost gauge.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:42 AM   #18
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Hey guys.. here are my first tries to fab a TwinScroll.. pretty newbish ;) But you'll first have to figure out how to merge oval to round.. this is really stealing my nerves























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Old 08-26-2014, 05:23 AM   #19
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So.. long time no progress in here...

Right now im trying to figure out how to cut the collector pipes.. which machine, what angle and so on.. bandsaw doesnt work for this job.. im turning a spacerdisc for my miter saw to fit a 10" Grinderdisc in it.. looks like this:



How would you weld the doubles to the scrollisolator?
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:36 PM   #20
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Some tips on the welding: less heat. If your not back purging with argon you will want to keep the heat down so it won't "sugar" on the backside. Welds should be shinny.

Also, before welding on the header, practice on some spare tubing. Cut a straight section into multiple rings (maybe 20mm long) and weld it back into a tube.

For cutting tubes I just use an angle grinder with a 5in cut-off wheel.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:40 PM   #21
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Those welds were my first stainless attempts looks much better already ;)

I will backpurge everything for sure.
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:22 AM   #22
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Would you use Stainless flanges or Mild? i think mixing up both materials with the right filler could work.. but i'd prefer using both stainless.. but the Mild flanges are cheaper and dont warp like the Enterprise..
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:41 AM   #23
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more pics maddaog
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:20 PM   #24
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Timely these recent posts are. I want to learn how to do this stuff bad.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:04 PM   #25
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If you want all the benefits of a twin-scroll turbine housing, do the following with the manifold:

-Equal length runners to the collector
-Pair cylinders 1-4 and 2-3 together (on a conventional 1-3-4-2 firing order engine)
-Wastegate both sides separately with no crossover or leak path until they join back into the downpipe after the turbine

Twin scroll turbine housings take advantage of evenly timed staccato pulse energy from the exhaust flow at low engine speeds, and you need all of the above for it to work well. The fact that the exhaust flow path is divided all the way to the turbine housing also allows negative pressure wave scavenging if you use the right geometry for the engine speed you're tuning for.
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