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Old 01-18-2020, 03:03 PM   #1
Victorrr
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Default Turbo-ing a B200E, NA K-Jet

Hello there !
Let's begin with a few disclaimers :

Im French, my english isn't the best
Long big fat text block (id rather say it all once than repeat myself)
Living in France makes things different (don't worry I'll explain)
Yes, I'd like to turbo a stock NA K-Jet, and no, I can't LH 2.something swap it, and no I can't simply swap the engine from a 940 turbo or something.
And yes, I've done the search and found some interesting thread already but none of them had the answer to my question... They are all old.

I've read that IPD Cameron managed to make it work - somehow - in the 2000s, as a basic cheap blow through setup.

Okay, let's start with some infos first :

I have this 88 240 sedan (yes, it came with K Jet, no cat, no lambda no nothing). Almost 180k miles (done the km to miles conversion yeah).

The K Jet on this car is, meh. It runs yeah but I can def tell that its not running right. Im 100% sure it has to do with the car sitting + me adding fuel additive cleaning. I got the car in pretty bad shape for 4000 euros (yeah thats quite a lot but they are RARE here)...

So im planning on a K Jet rebuild, I just need to diagnose it first (I have the gauge tool dw).
I know for a fact that the valves haven't been adjusted in a big while + timing belt needs replacing + engine mounts too.

I realised that it would be easier to just pull the whole engine and swap it out. except there isn't any engines to swap in its place, nearest one is in germany... Then I came across this turbo + manifold from a B200(FT?) for a really low price. 80 euros + shipping. 1st turbo on sale since Iv'e had the car...

From what I've read. The issues with Turbo-ing an engines will be the mixture and timing. K Jet can be adjusted and since It'll be fully rebuild, im like, hey, why not. For the timing... I have this very nice 123 Tune +, fully programmable unit with vacuum/boost port so retard under boost is no issue I guess. As for the fuel enrichment under boost...

I don't know. I don't plan on running much boost (maybe 5,6 psi max?). LH swap is out of the question since there isnt ANY available for sale here + I don't know if the 123 Tune will work with LH anyway...

The main issue with NA K-Jet is the air bellow thingy + the position of it. Im wondering, is it possible to use the NA K-Jet as a draw through ? The biggest issue with that for me would be the crazy plumbing, placing the metering unit on the exhaust side in place of the washer liquid, It would mean making new fuel lines, idk...

The thing is : is this possible ? I just want to take care of my engine, I know it needs care and I'm like "Hey since I need to pull the thing, why not turbo the thing !"

The block is a late 88 K cast. Skinny rod. They'll be okay. What im not sure of is the maintenance on the thing. Should I take it all apart, measure, check clearance and rebuilt it using new bearings, gaskets ect.. What's cool with living in Europe is I have access to KG Trimning, a great sweedishh website.

I'm afraid to find out of round cylinders tbh, I can hear a bit of noise but I can't tell if its cam related or if its good ol' piston slap...

The "support" mods I plan on doing :

Mocal oil cooler. around 240 euros for a nice oil cooler + thermostat
Complete refresh of the engine (bottom end, top end, reusing what I can but going with quality when new parts needed)
Stock turbo from a 2L euro spec turbo engine (will get a rebuild kit if needed)
(suspension wise the thing is already riding on some nice B6, I have a full bushing set layin around + ipd sway bars and a few braces)
"Tuned" K-Jet. As a draw through to avoid the issue on decel (Turbo blowing the metering plate open, leading to cylinder being washed down + poor economy)
I know that the stock injectors can handle a lot, they will get cleaned or replaced if too far gone.
A wideband if I can afford it + an oil temp gauge

The list of things im less sure of :
Intercooler ? I don't plan on going for crazy boost but I figure, hey looks cool if I can find one cheap, why not ?
A new cam. I think I have the ****ty M cam atm, I might go with a Turbo cam. Issue is... sourcing one here.
Porting...? Nah. I don't need it. My goal is at best 150hp ..? I want reliability.
a CPR/WUR from a turbo car ? Im really not sure about this one...
A 2.5" exhaust (single muffler or dual..?)

All the things im not sure of :

How to route the thing (mostly the K-Jet position)
Some stuff about rebuilding the engine
How to create the adequate timing map
Boost enrichment... Is it really needed if I don't floor it non stop/run 5/6 psi ?
Reliability and mileage.
How to route the oil feed and return to and from the Turbooo (tapping the block ?)

Budget wise... Im a student willing to spend the money to make it reliable. We can't go fast here anyway... I just like the idea of making my own car, and having a Turbo ^^
I love my car, really, there is only 3 !!! 240s in my 300k people town (1 is diesel the other one is an old mint 242GT)

Sorry for the long big fat text, long live the brick !
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Old 01-18-2020, 07:13 PM   #2
John242Ti
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Simplest way of doing this would be to get the airbox and fuel distributor assembly, along with the fuel lines from a B19ET or B21ET equipped 240 Turbo. You may also want to get the wiring harness, since, if the B200E is like a B23E, the ignition system box is attached to the washer fluid reservoir, which gets removed for the airbox assembly. Also, I'm not sure which control pressure regulator is used on the B200E, but either the 079 or the 082 would work better in a turbo application, due to there being acceleration enrichment of the mixture. Another option would be to go with the UT-CIS control pressure regulator instead of a stock part.

On the intake side, you'd remove the airflow sensor assembly, replacing those parts with the turbo parts located behind the passenger side headlamp. For the intercooler piping, either run stock 240 Turbo parts or the 1991 940 hot side piping without the compressor bypass valve nipples. Intercooler piping on the intake side would just be a 700/900 Turbo setup from a 1983-91 car. Rotate the throttle body elbow on the piping so it opens upward. Use two clamps (or one wide clamp) to attach it to the throttle body, otherwise it will likely pop off the lip under high boost situations.

Basically, you'd have this when you're done, with some slight differences, that being your car having an auxiliary air valve instead of the constat idle air valve shown here, and it'd be a B230 block and head, instead of a B23FT with a B21FT K-Jet head installed.

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Old 01-18-2020, 07:37 PM   #3
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Cam shaft you should have the A cam already in there so ideal for turbo conversion.

If you 100% must keep K jet then look to the US for a turbo kjet meter and hoses where someone has upgraded to LH2.4 or standalone.

Intercooler you can use a 740 one and its hoses as a direct fit. I also stock new all alloy drop in units.
Porting no need on your goals
9mm rods - they pop out the blocks for fun with NA engines and even bigger problem when you add boost. Highly reccommend H beams or even just some 13mm rods
2.5 inch exhaust would be a good idea, the originals normally blow apart when you add a turbo
The oil lines are easy enough. There is a boss in the block you can drill and tap, oil feed there is a take off threaded in teh block

I would highly suggest converting to LH2.4, yes there is a lot of cost but will make a better job in the end and will work

My dad has a house in Merillac, he is considered the 240 expert in the Uk so if you ever wanted a visit. His French is so so but is good enough for most things
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:26 PM   #4
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Because you are taking the engine out. That would be a good time to add the parts for the suggested LH2.4 swap. You can get the LH2.4 parts reasonable from the US if they are too hard to get in Europe. The nice thing is with a set of LH2.4 turbo computers even stock you will have the fuel and ignition management for what power you want and stock management can even handle a bit more.

I like kjet a lot. But if you are going to do so much work. EFI is going to make it easier to accomplish this goal with more easily available parts. Staying with kjet you are going to have to find the boost enrichment control pressure regulator as used on the B19ET or B21ET which are not easy to find. The only other thought I had for staying with kjet is to use the USA parts which are not common but are more easily found. That is if someone will ship them over to you. Those would be parts like John mentions which are from the B21FT engines. The boost enrichment is handled by the lambda controller with a switch to detect when boost enrichment is needed. But like I wrote, an efi conversion will be easier to accomplish your goal with power and it will be a clean running engine.

Wish you well with the boosted brick project.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John242Ti View Post
Simplest way of doing this would be to get the airbox and fuel distributor assembly, along with the fuel lines from a B19ET or B21ET equipped 240 Turbo.
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Thanks for the answer. Sadly, sourcing these parts is no easy task here...
I realise that it's a lot of work, maybe too much work and too complicated. Its just that I liked the idea of using the stock K Jet system.


The issue with LH is that I don't want to ditch my 123 Dizzy. Its been sooo reliable, the spark is much stronger and the unit works flawlessly... The thing with K Jet is that its completely independent from the ignition unit itself.

H beams, I have no idea if they will fit. There is no machine shop in the area and I'm not sure what crank I have, it being a late 88 K cast...

Glad to hear that the cam wont be an issue, I'll look into it, but I've always felt like the engine ran out of power about 4500 rpm, thus assuming I have the M cam.

Im not really familiar with LH, it does manage both the ignition and fuel but with two different computers right ?

Also, what are the cost of a complete LH setup ? This would mean a new intake manifold, fuel rail, a harness, injectors, the computer too.. What about the crank position sensor ? My My bell housing doesn't have the slot for that one.

My original idea was to use the stock fueling system to spare money for nice parts, engine refresh + oil cooler and other goodies. I don't know if I'll have money for all of that with an LH. LH that I need to source from the US, and I don't know how expensive would be a full LH2.4 system... Alongside the fact that Id have to ditch the 123 dizzy, which sucks cuz its an expensive one...

I'd have to find someone willing to send me said LH parts. I think someone is selling a manifold + fuel rail here. The issue would be sourcing a dizzy. Looks like I need to dig deeper into LH style injection. I have the bentleys manual laying around, Im going to give it a go

Edit : the only thing the 123 dizzy lacks is a ping/detonation sensor. It does control the coil (a nice flamethrower) via a hall sensor. It also drives the tach. Thats the only output from it.

Another edit : I'd also need a harness, I'd need all of the parts (I only have the turbo + manifold). Don't forget it aint Merica here, I can't just go to a random JY to pull parts. Volvo 240 turbo parts to be accurate*. Looking up at the prices on Ebay atm, its around 300 dollars for both the ECU and EZK...

Last edited by Victorrr; 01-19-2020 at 06:41 AM..
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:17 PM   #6
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How about aftermarket engine mangement like Megasquirt or Microsquirt? You can keep the 123 distributor and have the system only manage your fuel. Your fuel pumps are fine to supply the fuel needed. There is a huge amount of information about it here on this board and there are several people here that can help with questions and how they did their setups. Probably your most economic and easiest way to go.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
How about aftermarket engine mangement like Megasquirt or Microsquirt? You can keep the 123 distributor and have the system only manage your fuel. Your fuel pumps are fine to supply the fuel needed. There is a huge amount of information about it here on this board and there are several people here that can help with questions and how they did their setups. Probably your most economic and easiest way to go.
I should look it up, but idk about the cost of it... I would need a lot of parts nah..?

Can LH 2.4 work with the 123 dizzy ?
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:33 PM   #8
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Thanks for the answer. Sadly, sourcing these parts is no easy task here...
Fortunately you're on a forum where people sell parts all the time. The problem will come down to how much money do you want to spend.


List of parts that you need one way or another:
Intercooler with piping - You can get some universal kit to work or stock parts are the -easier option - used prices is $50 to $100
Turbo - $50-100(I would rebuild turbo to avoid problems later so theres more cost there)
Exhaust Manifold - $50-100
Down pipe - $50-75
Ignition setup(using the kjet breakerless ignition is the easiest route)$50-100


If you decide to go to fuel injection:
You need at least need the ECU - runs $50-75
Intake manifold with fuel rail/injectors, throttle body $50-100
Engine harness - $50-100

You'll need to also get injectors plugs for head if you go to fuel injection.

This gives you a basic idea of what you need.

I personally could provide everything minus the ignition setup(these can be found ebay with not too much difficulty).
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:45 PM   #9
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I should look it up, but idk about the cost of it... I would need a lot of parts nah..?

Can LH 2.4 work with the 123 dizzy ?
Well you would still need all the air handling parts like intercooler, pipes, intake manifold, injectors, exhaust, etc. But the fuel management would work with your 123 setup. The LH2.2 or 2.4 is designed to interact with the EZK ignition for load signals. So you can't use the 123 setup. It wouldn't be any more expensive then buying all the volvo parts. The aftermarket management will be a learning curve for tuning but you can do it.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:52 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by white855T View Post
Fortunately you're on a forum where people sell parts all the time. The problem will come down to how much money do you want to spend.


List of parts that you need one way or another:
Intercooler with piping - You can get some universal kit to work or stock parts are the -easier option - used prices is $50 to $100
Turbo - $50-100(I would rebuild turbo to avoid problems later so theres more cost there)
Exhaust Manifold - $50-100
Down pipe - $50-75
Ignition setup(using the kjet breakerless ignition is the easiest route)$50-100


If you decide to go to fuel injection:
You need at least need the ECU - runs $50-75
Intake manifold with fuel rail/injectors, throttle body $50-100
Engine harness - $50-100

You'll need to also get injectors plugs for head if you go to fuel injection.

This gives you a basic idea of what you need.

I personally could provide everything minus the ignition setup(these can be found ebay with not too much difficulty).
Thanks for the help, thing is :

I live in Europe, shipping is going to be expensive.
I think I will go for a standalone fuel system.
The good part is I can find parts like the intercooler, the injector plug holes, the throttle body + manifold + fuel rail.
Injectors... From what I've read, microsquirt needs high impedance ones. I've heard a lot about injectors from a 850. These aren't easy to find used here. Looks like I'll need to buy some parts from this place and source the rest locally, here.

Ignition is no issue if it works with my existing 123, actually this unit alongside the new coil and 8mm HT leads works great and provides a good spark with a really accurate timing (since its fully electronic) + allows me to lock my car by disabling itself (safety comes first, so im not ditching this unit, thus eliminating LH conversion from my possibility).

Turbo (and manifold) I already have one coming to me, gon rebuild this.

Edit : The K Jet breakerless unit was really awful on my car to begin with
With a standalone I would need an AMM and a Lambda sond, nah ?

Last edited by Victorrr; 01-19-2020 at 02:01 PM..
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:50 PM   #11
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No, the microsquirt or megasquirt uses a Map sensor, engine coolant temp sensor, an rpm feed from the distributor. It also uses a standard heated wideband o2 sensor and a intake air temp sensor. It doesn't care if the injectors are high or low impedance but I would suggest using high impedance to reduce wiring and possible wiring problems. You will also need a laptop and appropriate tuning software all easily available. The injectors would be easy to source. If you have to get them from the US it would be a very small light box thus cheap shipping. I would think you could easily find them in Germany or Sweden.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:35 PM   #12
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No, the microsquirt or megasquirt uses a Map sensor, engine coolant temp sensor, an rpm feed from the distributor. It also uses a standard heated wideband o2 sensor and a intake air temp sensor. It doesn't care if the injectors are high or low impedance but I would suggest using high impedance to reduce wiring and possible wiring problems. You will also need a laptop and appropriate tuning software all easily available. The injectors would be easy to source. If you have to get them from the US it would be a very small light box thus cheap shipping. I would think you could easily find them in Germany or Sweden.
Nice to hear that !
So I assume the injectors fire all at once with it ? Microsquirt can be had for quite cheap on Yoshifab so I think I'll go down this way. I have 3 months to figure it out, I can't take appart the car unti late april/may and will have until late august to finish the project.

MAP sensor ? No AMM at all ? Im not sure to understand how it work ahah
As for the o2 wideband, Im almost sure that most wideband like the AEM or Innovate ones can provide signal from the gauge to a standalone ECU, so thats figured out.

Im guessing that the RPM signal from the dizzy you are talking about is the signal that triggers the coil/runs the tacho ? If thats the case, then yes, the 123 unit will work perfectly since its really accurate and reliable. Coolant temp, I can use the OE Volvo one ? Will swap it for a new OEM one when rebuilding the engine, for peace of mind.

Sounds like it, budget wise I may have to drop the idea of putting a fancy oil cooler tho. I do have a laptop (I can program my timing with my phone via bluetooth, I need to dive deeper into that, I have no idea how to set a proper timing curve, right now I've just copied the OE Bosch one but advanced it a bit since im running 98 octane fuel).

I'm just curious, this setup doesn't include any knock sensor. Thanks god I don't plan on running much boost. As for the injectors, I think I can source 850 yellow top (are these the ones I'll be needed with my 150hp goal ?) - as for H rods... I don't know, depends on the cost... I'd rather not chew on my school budget.

Also, no need for a throttle position sensor ? How does the thing sense load, via the MAP sensor ?

Thanks for the help !
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:38 PM   #13
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Sorry, I forgot to mention the throttle position sensor. People use the volvo one. I think it's a 850 one. Yes, you can use a knock sensor as well. Check out the aftermarket engine management section. Also in projects and restorations. In the sub forums like the vault and the archive there are people who posted their suggestions on installation. There are quite a few people who have installed both megasquirt and microsquirt. There is even idle management using the volvo stepper motor. Those folks are a lot more knowledgeable than me.

Some of them have tuned the skinny rod engine to 300hp. You should be pretty safe at 200hp or so with a good tune.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:43 PM   #14
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Sorry, I forgot to mention the throttle position sensor. People use the volvo one. I think it's a 850 one. Yes, you can use a knock sensor as well. Check out the aftermarket engine management section. Also in projects and restorations. In the sub forums like the vault and the archive there are people who posted their suggestions on installation. There are quite a few people who have installed both megasquirt and microsquirt. There is even idle management using the volvo stepper motor. Those folks are a lot more knowledgeable than me.

Some of them have tuned the skinny rod engine to 300hp. You should be pretty safe at 200hp or so with a good tune.
Thanks for the help, thats what I'm starting to realise. Thx for the info as well, the search fonction isn't really the best way to find stuff. I figured out long ago that you gotta read a lot to find valuable piece of information here (I've been reading TB for almost a year now ahah)

I'll check that out. As for the rods, I'll see when I'll be here. I also need to factor in the bigger oil pump.. That's another 100 euros ! Some say these skinny rods are trash, other say they aren't... I'm kinda lost.

As for the 850 throttle position sensor, im curious to know how it does fit the B230 manifold...
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:10 PM   #15
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I'll check that out. As for the rods, I'll see when I'll be here. I also need to factor in the bigger oil pump.. That's another 100 euros ! Some say these skinny rods are trash, other say they aren't... I'm kinda lost.

As for the 850 throttle position sensor, im curious to know how it does fit the B230 manifold...
I have had 5 NA engine punch out a rod and 6 turbo's do the same. All but one were engine in standard form, all failed in normal driving with no other issues that would be likely to cause the issue. The one that was not in standard for had for a few years been running 18psi boost with no issues. One day started up and driven gentle in a 30 limit and less than half a mile along lots of knocking, rough running and oil everywhere.

The B200 is less of a issue but I would still do them. All B200/230 rods are interchangable regardless of crank type.

The TPS you can buy a bracket or make one https://www.classicswede.co.uk/LH24_..._19839535.aspx
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:22 AM   #16
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I have had 5 NA engine punch out a rod and 6 turbo's do the same. All but one were engine in standard form, all failed in normal driving with no other issues that would be likely to cause the issue. The one that was not in standard for had for a few years been running 18psi boost with no issues. One day started up and driven gentle in a 30 limit and less than half a mile along lots of knocking, rough running and oil everywhere.

The B200 is less of a issue but I would still do them. All B200/230 rods are interchangable regardless of crank type.

The TPS you can buy a bracket or make one https://www.classicswede.co.uk/LH24_..._19839535.aspx
Nice to know that, I looked up at the crank sizes and its only the main bearings that changes, and I think I have a big bearing one (it being a late 88 K cast). Looks like I'll have no choice but to swap these rods for piece of mind, but this is getting costly... Peoples telling me I should ditch the 123 dizzy...
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:56 AM   #17
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The 123tune is good but with going stand alone or LH2.4 you no longer need it. Selling that could help fund the project
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:03 AM   #18
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The 123tune is good but with going stand alone or LH2.4 you no longer need it. Selling that could help fund the project
Can the Microsquirt work as a fuel ECU only ?
I would need a flywheel position sensor + some power stage + a fixed dizzy nah ? So I would need a 60 - 2 flywheel, the sensor, ect.. ect..

Its costly.

I'll get there eventually yeah.. Is it possible to run the MS as a fuel only keeping the 123 until I find the money to go wasted spark LS coil ?
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:19 PM   #19
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Yes you can run Microsquirt as fuel only keeping the 123

LH2.4 flywheels are not so common to find.

You could go with a trigger wheel on the front pulley as a alternative
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:29 PM   #20
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Yes you can run Microsquirt as fuel only keeping the 123

LH2.4 flywheels are not so common to find.

You could go with a trigger wheel on the front pulley as a alternative
Thanks for the infos

I can buy a brand new flywheel from KG http://www.kgtrimning.org/tuning-spe...0special2.html
This website is really great ! One of the good things about living in Europe I guess. But cost, cost cost and cost again...

I'll look into the ignition later on, for now my 123 unit is working great, I dont feel like changing the whole injection system + rebuilding the engine + doing the ignition, sounds a bit too much right now. I do have the time to decide tho, as I don't plan on doing this build until may or something (I can't pass exams and rebuild an engine at the same time ahah)

I'll keep digging, I still have quite a few questions

Edit : I also need to do my homework on this little baby cam http://www.kgtrimning.org/tuning-spe...afts/kg2t.html
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:16 PM   #21
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The flywheel you linked means you would need the older type of turbo clutch. Doing down to a 215mm clutch also means the pressure plate has to work harder and stiffer pedal.
It is more common to go bigger say from the 228mm to 240mm but again means spending.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:23 PM   #22
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The flywheel you linked means you would need the older type of turbo clutch. Doing down to a 215mm clutch also means the pressure plate has to work harder and stiffer pedal.
It is more common to go bigger say from the 228mm to 240mm but again means spending.
Yeahhh... But wait, RetroTurbo also sell *this* : http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=b...ankshaft-wheel

Needless to say, wont be hard to ditch the 123 when I'll have the money

I didnt knew all of that about clutch weight. I LOVE the clutch in my car, it feels soooo light ! Cable driven, the travel is short, grabs well, its linear and all. Way better than most of the new cars I had to drive (especially FWD hatch, tho I drove a series 1 diesel Bimmer and the clutch was sool heavy but grippy too.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:29 AM   #23
Victorrr
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Speaking of clutch...

Will I need a new clutch ? The one I have rn have like, 50k km on it... And I don't think I'll have much budget left for a turbo clutch or something. Will the stock NA clutch handle the 150/160 whp im aiming for ?

Last edited by Victorrr; 01-21-2020 at 08:29 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:48 PM   #24
dl242gt
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No the stock n/a clutch won't handle that power. However, the stock Volvo 228mm dished flywheel clutch will.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
No the stock n/a clutch won't handle that power. However, the stock Volvo 228mm dished flywheel clutch will.
Is that a direct fit ? Will I need a new pressure plate too ? Any modifications needed ?
This type of clutch ? http://www.kgtrimning.org/700-ser/cl...it/ks1505.html
http://www.kgtrimning.org/200-ser-1/...tes/lm610.html without the pressure plate (with such kind of price difference idk.. might pick up the whole thing, tho I might go over budget by a lot...

Sorry for my ignorance

edit : for the rod, I think I'll go with these. A bit pricey but known quality http://www.kgtrimning.org/tuning-spe...cting-rod.html
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