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tfrasca's 142 Turbo Project

Carter black fits the bill. 397 lph free flow which is more or less what it's doing from my main tank to my surge tank and back. The 044 is only about 300 at low pressure, through to 200lph at high pressure.

Does this car have an 044? I thought not? A smaller/cheaper/quieter carter would do the trick, if not, and possibly even if so.

For 300 or 400hp you could PWM an 044 and get the peak flow way down, noise down, fuel heating down, and power consumption down. The only reason to run more than you need is FPR linearity which generally only needs 50-100hp worth of fuel in excess to be similar to the idle value. I have an ozzy regulator on my desk that's tested to be more linear than most, but requires an extra 200hp of fuel flowing through it to not fall into the non-linear region. In any case, 044 is good for quite some hp at full voltage.

Re injectors, you can go lower than that figure for two reasons: 1) less than full-on duty cycle and 2) the surge tank's job is to buffer your needs, hence comments about salt flats vs street driving, though I guess if you like to burn down the freeway at double or triple the legal limit, you'd need the lift pump to supply full flow. You also want the lift pump to be refreshing the heated fuel in the surge tank with cool tank fuel as much as feasible without further heating by the lift pump itself.
 
I would get a aem 380lph external pump. It is quieter then the 044 and will more then suit your needs. Hell I have a China 380lph knock off that draws through a high mounted fuel transfer tank filter and goes to the bottom of the tank where the sump was welded in. No fuel delivery issues at all even with the horrible setup
 
Yesterday, I hooked up the Walbro 255 that Gary loaned me. The first thing I noticed is that he had it set up with 1/4" hose barbs in/out. My stock 240 turbo pump had a 1/2" hose going into it. Obviously it was designed to be fed by the in tank pump, which is why the inlet hose was so big. I'm thinking that maybe without the intank pump, the 240 pump couldn't pull that volume of fuel and was cavitating a bit. Eh?

Anyway, I replaced the 1/2" hose with a 1/4" hose and got the Walbro going. Right off the bat, fuel pressure on the Aeromotive gauge was much more steady at idle. I did a few pulls at 10 psi, and the high RPM lean condition is gone. I never saw AFRs above mid 11. I put a boost controller on it, and at about 14 psi, pretty much the same thing. I may have seen a 12.0 at one point, but it had good power all the way to 6200 RPM. This little car is not that slow...

Anyway, big thanks to Gary for the loaner pump, and Ryan for hand delivering it. Now I just need to figure out what route to go with the surge tank/pump/lift pump thing, before Davis.
 
t8fanning said:
Why not get a Walbro 450 for about $100 on Amazon and never have to worry about fueling again?
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I'm less concerned about which pump I get, and more about figuring out the best way to package a surge tank and pumps under the car. No matter what pump I put inline, I'll still have slosh issues.
 
Sweet, glad that loaner got ya going, so you can figure out a game plan now. I was curious if you had a chance to test it today, without the rain and hail. lol
 
Tfrasca said:
Yesterday, I hooked up the Walbro 255 that Gary loaned me. The first thing I noticed is that he had it set up with 1/4" hose barbs in/out.
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No way would I run anything under 5/16 on the feed to any turbo engine worth any respect. Suits a crappy walbro, though :p

Also, your return line should ideally match your post-pump feed line size to maximise linearity from the regulator and ease tuning slightly. At idle nearly all of the fuel supplied is being returned, so the return line should be coping with the same volume/rate as the feed line and with similarly little restriction.

Tfrasca said:
My stock 240 turbo pump had a 1/2" hose going into it.
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Low restriction on the inlet side because, once again, they're not designed to suck. With that size, and without the priming pump you *may* get some air that stays at the high point, but it'd either just stay there with fuel flowing by, or it'd get drawn through and clear out pretty quickly.

Tfrasca said:
I'm thinking that maybe without the intank pump, the 240 pump couldn't pull that volume of fuel and was cavitating a bit.
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Cavitation would occur with excess restriction, not a free reservoir of low-vacuum fuel. Sounds like you just had a 40 year old pump that had seen better days? Or a bad low quality replacement version? Either way, glad you isolated it, and looking forward to seeing progress :-)

Aside from the silly prime pump which seems to me to be a classic case of Swedish over engineering, I really like the factory fuel pump/filter/line setup on these old RWD Volvos. The large diameter feed is nice, and the low-rearward-soft-mounted location is nice. The bullet connectors aren't so nice, but that's easily remedied.
 
Ok, couple things for the discussion related to ^^^^.

First, yes, there are a few varieties of Volvo pumps that ran in the same form as Tyler's setup. Pre-77 had no in-tank pump, still ran k-jet or d-jet pumps with just a 1/2" hardline inside the tank down to the filter screen. The design worked, just gotta use the right pump.
Second, 1/4" barb will handle a decent bit of fuel, but the pump is setup with an M10 fitting on it. The 1/4 barb was just what I needed on the last setup that pump was on, still handled enough for a Mopar TBI V8. Hell, look at the Mustang in-tank pumps. They still only have a 1/4 or 5/16" barb on them, good for more than double what our cars ran for power from the factory. Even in my setup, still running stock size lines on the sender, factory hard lines under the car (12mm), but Volvo shrank the line down to 3/16" between the filter and pump in stock form, plus the fuel rail is still only 1/4 or 5/16 on the supply side. For Tyler's goals (and mine even), that should be an issue. Yeah, it'd be nice, and in an ideal world, it should be fine, but definitely not mandatory.
 
FreeEMSFred said:
No way would I run anything under 5/16 on the feed to any turbo engine worth any respect. Suits a crappy walbro, though :p

Also, your return line should ideally match your post-pump feed line size to maximise linearity from the regulator and ease tuning slightly. At idle nearly all of the fuel supplied is being returned, so the return line should be coping with the same volume/rate as the feed line and with similarly little restriction.
Click to expand...

Oh, really? I have 1/4" from the pump to the rail, and 5/16" from the rail > regulator > tank. I did this because it mimicked the stock fuel line size. You would replace the 1/4" feed with 5/16"?

FreeEMSFred said:
Low restriction on the inlet side because, once again, they're not designed to suck. With that size, and without the priming pump you *may* get some air that stays at the high point, but it'd either just stay there with fuel flowing by, or it'd get drawn through and clear out pretty quickly.

Cavitation would occur with excess restriction, not a free reservoir of low-vacuum fuel. Sounds like you just had a 40 year old pump that had seen better days? Or a bad low quality replacement version? Either way, glad you isolated it, and looking forward to seeing progress :-)
Click to expand...

I guess cavitation was the wrong term. I was just imagining air in the line from the tank to the pump, like you said. The pump I was using was a brand new Bosch pump from IPD, so I blame my setup and not a bad pump. Anyway, things are working better now and I'm excited to figure out a fuel system that I will never have to doubt again.
 
On my old 240 I ran stock fuel lines, on the turbo ls cars I have I just run a 3/8 with no pressure drop issues. Even with the china 380 pump sucking through a tractor supply transfer tank filter
 
Never touched the stock lines on the 244, it consistently would make 302-307whp on boost only at 20ish pounds, we sprayed it with nitrous once and it sounded like it was gonna grenade, ended up throwing down 372whp. But it never went lean :)
 
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