home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2017, 10:30 PM   #1
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default T3/T4 not spooling in first

My 63 ar exhaust 60 ar cold side t3/t4 with stage 3 turbine and 60 trim comp wheel won't build full boost in first gear even at redline. My exhaust is 3" and short. In 2nd it can spool decently but still slow. Is this normal? What could cause this?

Wastegate was leaking but that is now fixed. Conditions above still apply

Last edited by maxitoman007; 11-27-2017 at 01:55 AM..
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 10:32 PM   #2
centason
Wine enemas for all
 
centason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ft.Mill, SC
Default

Sounds like you have a boost leak on your Ford Pinto.
__________________
Member: TBCCS
Death to all who stand in the way of obtaining the freedom of working people!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
Just remember this guys. Im related to cocaine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forg View Post
they were pushing sloppy poo up a steep hill with a pointy stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFridge View Post
You sons of bitches are the biggest thread de-railers in forum history.
Any forums history.
centason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:14 PM   #3
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Im pulling 20 mmHG vacuum warm so I don't think it could be a vacuum leak so you mean after the head? Exhaust system? How can you spot these?
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:29 PM   #4
turbotankshane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Default

Lots of different things to look at. The .63 hotside is gonna make it spool a bit slow, but depending on how fast you are revving through first you may not be loading the engine enough to generate the boost you're after. I can get the same turbo on a stock b230ft to make 25-30 psi in first gear, but that's with a 3.06 first gear, 3.08 final drive and a 29" tall tire.. and it makes 30psi damn quick with some assistance.

What transmission?
What final drive?
Stock engine, or if not, what mods?
How much preload do you have on the actuator?
Do you have a boost controller or are you just on the spring?
What boost pressure is the wastegate rated for?
turbotankshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:31 PM   #5
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

The waste gate must be stuck open.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:35 PM   #6
tryingbe
Boosting along.
 
tryingbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mesa, AZ
Default

Pictures of your setup will only help.
__________________
85 GLH 350whp
00 Insight 72 mpg
94 855 in hibernation
tryingbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:51 PM   #7
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Ok so here is my mods list.

- Car is 1987 740 Turbo wagon with almost exactly 300 000 km
- upgraded to 13mm rods
- new rod bearings
- new piston rings
- cylinder ridges reamed
- cylinders re-honed using ball hone
- new head gasket
- head resurfaced
- carbon deposits in head cleaned out
- valves re seated
- replaced valve stem seals
- replaced valve hushers
- reshimed head (T cam)
- new front cam seal
- new valve cover seal
- upgraded injectors (brand new browntops)
- new intake manifold gasket
- upgraded intercooler (31x12x3)
- cone filter intake with bottom of intake area cut out or bent down for more air flow
- ebay turbo exhaust header (flange flipped)
- Almost new Garrett T3/T4 60AR intake 63AR exhaust turbo (rebuilt)
- upgraded oil braided steel turbo oil feed line
- new exhaust manifold gasket
- replaced exhaust manifold studs
- t3 to t3 wastegate adapter plate
- Turbonetics external wastegate
- wastegate dump to atmosphere out hood
- 2.5 inch exhaust out hood off turbo
- Greddy E-01 electronic boost controller
- prosport evo wideband
- autometer C2 boost gauge (only goes to 20 psi but EBC screen also had boost gauge)
- over boost switch bypassed
- amm and idle set for new injectors
- new spark plugs (NGK 7es)
- throttle body cleaned with new gasket
- flame trap/ PCV box cleaned
- Greddy catch can
- new oil pan gasket
- synthetic oil (Mobil one)
- 94 octane (with ethanol...) or shell 91
- new coolant
- new power steering fluid
- new coolant temp sensor
- ignition timing set to 14/15 degrees BTDC

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
The waste gate must be stuck open.
Don't think it's stuck open as I have a hood dump from external gate and can see it closed. Could be leaking though, I'm not sure.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 12:10 AM   #8
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Stop thinking. Start checking.

Do a boost leak test.
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 12:14 AM   #9
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Yea, thinking of doing the ghetto "plug the intake and blow in the breather hose" method. Guess it can't be after the throttle body because of the strong vacuum I'm pulling. Just hoping it's a coupler or something and not a pesky exhaust leak.

Watched a video of a guy with a big hole in one of his couplers on a 740 and could still make 12 psi on a pretty big turbo. So it must be something obvious I'm thinking.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 01:25 AM   #10
centason
Wine enemas for all
 
centason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ft.Mill, SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
The waste gate must be stuck open.
if pulling good vacuum.
centason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 02:22 AM   #11
TurboDenny
Why am I here?
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

We also had another member on here with a similar issue that accidentally left a rag in his intercooler pipe.
__________________

'90 245 Daily


Instagram: @itstotesdenny

I want all your nostalgic Volvo stuffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeEMSFred View Post
Nothing's black magic. Basics to moderate power levels are cake, period. Start off rich and retarded, like your president.
TurboDenny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 02:25 AM   #12
gsellstr
Vintage anti-ricer
 
gsellstr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Somewhere in a northern California smog bank
Default

First suggestion, 90% of the list you've posted for mods, absolutely worthless as they are unrelated as a 'mod', makes it tedious to read thru. Food for thought as I've seen that list posted in a few threads.

Second, you've got a wastegate stuck open. I saw you have an external gate listed, is the internal gate locked shut or is the housing a non-gated housing?

I've got a .63 on the GT2871R, has absolutely no issue spooling in 1st, easily hit 20psi by 3500, even on a stock head.
__________________
RIP
Doug Williams aka Mr. Doug 4/15/2009
Pete Fluitman aka fivehundred 7/14/2013
Mick Starkey aka TrickMick 1/10/14

74 144 B20
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=224983

90 745Ti
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=334698

If you need Superpro bushings PM me for price and availability!
gsellstr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 02:35 AM   #13
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
First suggestion, 90% of the list you've posted for mods, absolutely worthless as they are unrelated as a 'mod', makes it tedious to read thru. Food for thought as I've seen that list posted in a few threads.

Second, you've got a wastegate stuck open. I saw you have an external gate listed, is the internal gate locked shut or is the housing a non-gated housing?

I've got a .63 on the GT2871R, has absolutely no issue spooling in 1st, easily hit 20psi by 3500, even on a stock head.
I appologize for the lengthy list but I figured the more details the better. As for the turbo housing, it is a non-gated housing. I will try to pressure test my exhaust (does the stock cam have any overlap that would affect this?) most likely by trying to blow in it haha. With lack of boost this significant, the leak should be obvious. Is their anyway to repair a leaking external wastegate besides replacing it if this is the issue?
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 02:50 AM   #14
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Test the intake from the compressor inlet to the head. Spin the engine to the point where all valves are shut and stick a 5$ Home Depot/Napa/vatozone pressure plug in there and hit it with 10 psi, spray soapy water on all joints and the intake. Look for bubbles.

Take the same deal and do the exhaust.

But even that won’t tell you the wastegate is stuck... so remove the external gate and check it out first.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
Build it, break it, build what broke stronger, lather, rinse, repeat.

The Build Thread
SVEA - PUSHROD TURBO!
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 03:03 AM   #15
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
Test the intake from the compressor inlet to the head. Spin the engine to the point where all valves are shut and stick a 5$ Home Depot/Napa/vatozone pressure plug in there and hit it with 10 psi, spray soapy water on all joints and the intake. Look for bubbles.

Take the same deal and do the exhaust.

But even that won’t tell you the wastegate is stuck... so remove the external gate and check it out first.
Why wouldn't that tell me if the wastegate was stuck? Wouldn't I notice air exiting through the wastegate dump tube?

Edit: are you possibly thinking I have an internally gated turbo? If so what you're saying would make sense I believe.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 03:29 AM   #16
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Ahh, I didn’t see a dump tube. If that’s the case, stick your hand over the dump tube,m. I was thinking that your external gate wat plumbed back into the exhaust.
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 10:49 AM   #17
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
Ahh, I didn’t see a dump tube. If that’s the case, stick your hand over the dump tube,m. I was thinking that your external gate wat plumbed back into the exhaust.
Well my fan shroud wouldn't fit with the new intercooler so everywhere in the engine bay feels a little breezy. So it's hard to tell.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 11:24 AM   #18
turbotankshane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Default

Are you running stock lh2.2/ez117k?

Not really related, but IMO 14-15deg at idle, assuming 750rpm idle speed, is too much.

But back on topic, the first time I put a t3/t4 ebay setup on a car I hooked the wastegate arm up backwards so the flapper was wide open and could only just start building boost by redline. I didn't know you were externally gated when I posted earlier, so I'm going to say I'm with the others here on this and you've got a wastegate issue.
turbotankshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 11:25 AM   #19
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Ok I will check the wastegate later today.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 12:05 PM   #20
ryan242v
Board Member
 
ryan242v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: va beach
Default

Boost leak will be different than a vacuum leak. Like a certain hole may be an issue under boost but not notable under vacuum.
__________________
2009 Schwinn Leguna 50!! Scooter Puff Jr. 5,500 miles!
1998 S70 T5M, 264k miles, needs something
1987 244 DL, 234k miles (Current Daily Driver)
1979 242 DL, 500k miles, B230FT, M45, 3.31 diff
1973 1800ES awaiting restoration, not togethor
1971 Camaro, my highschool car, rusting away
1969 Suzuki T500 Titan II
ryan242v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 02:10 PM   #21
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan242v View Post
Boost leak will be different than a vacuum leak. Like a certain hole may be an issue under boost but not notable under vacuum.
Yea I believe anything after the throttle body goes under vacuum so anything before there is still a possible culprit.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 03:26 PM   #22
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

I blew an intake gasket and under vacuum it was fine, but 20 psi through the intake and it leaked like crazy
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 04:30 PM   #23
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Oh ok, noted. does the throttle body seal when the car is off or is it slightly open? I.e. Do I have to test each side of the throttle body separately for leaks?
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 04:57 PM   #24
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Wedge it open and test the whole thing. You could actually just seal the exhaust shut and test intake and exhaust all at the same time.
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 05:02 PM   #25
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotankshane View Post
Lots of different things to look at. The .63 hotside is gonna make it spool a bit slow, but depending on how fast you are revving through first you may not be loading the engine enough to generate the boost you're after. I can get the same turbo on a stock b230ft to make 25-30 psi in first gear, but that's with a 3.06 first gear, 3.08 final drive and a 29" tall tire.. and it makes 30psi damn quick with some assistance.

What transmission?
What final drive?

Stock engine, or if not, what mods?
How much preload do you have on the actuator?
Do you have a boost controller or are you just on the spring?
What boost pressure is the wastegate rated for?
Guess nobody thinks this is important..

I mean I've been in turdboat Volvos and Xratties with the crappy Thunderchicken T5 that with gearing alone zip thru the "2 car length 1st" so quickly the turbo simply doesn't have time to spool.. cause its Brap! Done..
But that's just what I actually have seen..
This is Turbobricks Performance which sits squarely in the New America, the post-truth, alt-factual Merikuh so pointless the muddy the discussion with facts and reasoning..
Shame on you! And me!
__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.