home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2017, 03:05 AM   #126
gross polluter
They see me trollin'
 
gross polluter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cold Lake, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotdoggin View Post
This is about the summation of everything, yes.

To those who find this thread in searches: understand why you do “stage zero” and realize the effects of it, otherwise you’ll end up making threads like this.

Don’t make threads like this in 2017. What’s left of it, anyways.
__________________
'88 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi | MS3X ECU, MS2 TCU | GT3582R-HTA | Staged simultaneous dual fuel | 590whp 580ftlbs

1968 Furd Rustang fastberk | 2JZGTE VVTi | MS3X ECU | PT6776S | 4L80e Microsquirt TCU Sloppy Transbrake | 3.73 8.8" rear end

1981 Piper Cherokee Archer II | All stock
gross polluter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 04:05 AM   #127
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

I thought my stage 0 was sufficient, I guess I was wrong.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 05:04 PM   #128
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Alright so I've made a little progress by adjusting timing. What I did was I aligned the cam gear with the timing mark on the back plate by turning the crank via the crank bolt (this also aligned the mark on the harmonic balancer with the 0 degrees marking although it did seem to be off a bit like maybe half a tooth?). I then loosened the tensioner and removed the belt off the cam gear. I turned the cam gear a tooth clockwise and put the belt back on. I then realigned the cam gear spot with its timing mark. I then looked at the harmonic balancer, the mark on the balancer was as expected no longer in line with the 0 degree mark, but assuming I had corrected the skipped tooth, the engine should have been at tdc if the cam was ligned up which it was. So I marked on the harmonic balancer in line with the 0 degree mark to essentially make a new, correct timing mark (balancer may have slipped a bit. I couldn't use the crank pinion key to align for tdc because my lower timing cover is still on). I then used my new mark to set the ignition timing to 14 degrees btdc (didn't require much distributor rotation).

I've read that advancing cam timing should move the powerband down which is what I wanted (car was sluggish until 4800 suggesting I skipped a tooth). I assumed shifting the cam clockwise was advancing the timing.

So after performing this change I will list what has now happened so you guys can see what you think.

Good:

- acceleration is more consistent now. Boost no longer climbs super rapidly after 4800rpm and boost is now built consistently throughout the rpm range.
- vacuum is now 20mmHg warm where as it was only 18mmHg before

Bad:

-idle rpm is no longer consistent (climbs to 2000-2500 on its own and only a blip of the throttle will drop the it back down where it begins climbing again. This also happens driving while stopped) could this be part of the ECUs "learning procedure"?

- engine began misfiring at idle which was only fixed/improved by richening up the base mixture (wideband read 13.0 at idle once misfiring had stopped).

So what do you guys think? Had I skipped a tooth before or am I now running my cam advanced like 10 degrees? LOL

Last edited by maxitoman007; 12-03-2017 at 05:13 PM..
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:17 PM   #129
Dicktater
Stiff Member
 
Dicktater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nunya
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
Alright so I've made a little progress by adjusting timing. What I did was I aligned the cam gear with the timing mark on the back plate by turning the crank via the crank bolt (this also aligned the mark on the harmonic balancer with the 0 degrees marking although it did seem to be off a bit like maybe half a tooth?). I then loosened the tensioner and removed the belt off the cam gear. I turned the cam gear a tooth clockwise and put the belt back on. I then realigned the cam gear spot with its timing mark. I then looked at the harmonic balancer, the mark on the balancer was as expected no longer in line with the 0 degree mark, but assuming I had corrected the skipped tooth, the engine should have been at tdc if the cam was ligned up which it was. So I marked on the harmonic balancer in line with the 0 degree mark to essentially make a new, correct timing mark (balancer may have slipped a bit. I couldn't use the crank pinion key to align for tdc because my lower timing cover is still on). I then used my new mark to set the ignition timing to 14 degrees btdc (didn't require much distributor rotation).

I've read that advancing cam timing should move the powerband down which is what I wanted (car was sluggish until 4800 suggesting I skipped a tooth). I assumed shifting the cam clockwise was advancing the timing.

So after performing this change I will list what has now happened so you guys can see what you think.

Good:

- acceleration is more consistent now. Boost no longer climbs super rapidly after 4800rpm and boost is now built consistently throughout the rpm range.
- vacuum is now 20mmHg warm where as it was only 18mmHg before

Bad:

-idle rpm is no longer consistent (climbs to 2000-2500 on its own and only a blip of the throttle will drop the it back down where it begins climbing again. This also happens driving while stopped) could this be part of the ECUs "learning procedure"?

- engine began misfiring at idle which was only fixed/improved by richening up the base mixture (wideband read 13.0 at idle once misfiring had stopped).

So what do you guys think? Had I skipped a tooth before or am I now running my cam advanced like 10 degrees? LOL
If you don't know what your doing you won't get it timed without removing the lower cover.

If your idle is funkie you have a leak somewhere.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliMeatWagon View Post
I hope your treehouse gets cancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
I buy a few when foodstamps get here because I have an investment strategy.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by volvo740b234/531 View Post
I smoke my weed and dream of an awesome life
Feedback >http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=197700
Dicktater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:24 PM   #130
gsellstr
Vintage anti-ricer
 
gsellstr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Somewhere in a northern California smog bank
Default

Did you check the ignition timing after changing the cam timing? Remember, cam driven dizzy on the 7/9's, you just changed the cam position in relation to TDC so you need to adjust the ignition timing since 2.2 still runs timing based on dizzy position. Fix that, may address your idle issue.
__________________
RIP
Doug Williams aka Mr. Doug 4/15/2009
Pete Fluitman aka fivehundred 7/14/2013
Mick Starkey aka TrickMick 1/10/14

74 144 B20
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=224983

90 745Ti
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=334698

If you need Superpro bushings PM me for price and availability!
gsellstr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:30 PM   #131
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
I then used my new mark to set the ignition timing to 14 degrees btdc (didn't require much distributor rotation).
I indeed reset my ignition timing using my new mark. Thinking of creating a piston stop to find true tdc to mark exactly on the harmonic balancer.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 11:38 PM   #132
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
Well when I check, the cam lines up with the timing mark and the tdc mark on the pulley lines up with the 0 degrees but that could have slipped. Is there any harm in trying it a tooth forward just to see if it runs more normally?
Don't rely on the timing mark on the crank pulley. Use the notch in the crank gear timing belt guide washer.
__________________
Trying to understand stupid people is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 11:40 PM   #133
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
Alright so I've made a little progress by adjusting timing. What I did was I aligned the cam gear with the timing mark on the back plate by turning the crank via the crank bolt (this also aligned the mark on the harmonic balancer with the 0 degrees marking although it did seem to be off a bit like maybe half a tooth?). I then loosened the tensioner and removed the belt off the cam gear. I turned the cam gear a tooth clockwise and put the belt back on. I then realigned the cam gear spot with its timing mark. I then looked at the harmonic balancer, the mark on the balancer was as expected no longer in line with the 0 degree mark, but assuming I had corrected the skipped tooth, the engine should have been at tdc if the cam was ligned up which it was. So I marked on the harmonic balancer in line with the 0 degree mark to essentially make a new, correct timing mark (balancer may have slipped a bit. I couldn't use the crank pinion key to align for tdc because my lower timing cover is still on). I then used my new mark to set the ignition timing to 14 degrees btdc (didn't require much distributor rotation).

I've read that advancing cam timing should move the powerband down which is what I wanted (car was sluggish until 4800 suggesting I skipped a tooth). I assumed shifting the cam clockwise was advancing the timing.

So after performing this change I will list what has now happened so you guys can see what you think.

Good:

- acceleration is more consistent now. Boost no longer climbs super rapidly after 4800rpm and boost is now built consistently throughout the rpm range.
- vacuum is now 20mmHg warm where as it was only 18mmHg before

Bad:

-idle rpm is no longer consistent (climbs to 2000-2500 on its own and only a blip of the throttle will drop the it back down where it begins climbing again. This also happens driving while stopped) could this be part of the ECUs "learning procedure"?

- engine began misfiring at idle which was only fixed/improved by richening up the base mixture (wideband read 13.0 at idle once misfiring had stopped).

So what do you guys think? Had I skipped a tooth before or am I now running my cam advanced like 10 degrees? LOL
The timing mark on the crank pulley is different than the crank sprocket timing mark by 15 degrees.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 11:44 PM   #134
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
I indeed reset my ignition timing using my new mark. Thinking of creating a piston stop to find true tdc to mark exactly on the harmonic balancer.
The front timing cover (the part that holds the crank and intermediate shaft seals) has a TDC mark. The crank sprocket belt guide washer has a small notch to align with the TDC mark on the front cover.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 01:35 AM   #135
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

I see, I just don't have the tool to hold the crank pulley so I can remove the bolt. Is there any other way to do this? I could see using the starter motor the crack the bolt off but not tighten it back on...
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 08:23 PM   #136
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Alright, discovered that I had indeed messed up what was already correct. Timing is back to how it was and late spool continues. I have done some tests and it seems as though in second, the max boost I can create is around 17/18 psi. I have tried setting my boost controller above this but it has refused to go over. Car still builds 10 psi at around 4500 slowly, then rpms shoot up to 6k and boost to 17psi almost instantly. Would a video help?
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 08:41 PM   #137
gross polluter
They see me trollin'
 
gross polluter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cold Lake, AB
Default

My vote at this point is the knucklehead forgot to put the seal ring in the wastegate. Or you’re blowing the WG open with such a wussy spring in it.
gross polluter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 09:17 PM   #138
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Wastegate ring is definitely back in and the wastegate is sealed. I have my EBC set to not begin opening until around 15psi so that shouldn't be an issue as long as the EBC is doing its job.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 09:47 PM   #139
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Update: did some research and I'm starting to think that it might just be because of how large my turbo actually is. With a 60 AR cold side .60 trim comp wheel, and a .63 ar exhaust side with a stage 3 turbine this much lag should be expected?
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 10:02 PM   #140
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Bigger turbo doesn't need to run as much boost because it's more efficient.

Last edited by lummert; 12-04-2017 at 10:37 PM..
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 10:12 PM   #141
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

Still sucks feeling the car begin pulling hard and then just be cut off. Still seems wrong although I guess that's what you get for running a big turbo. Hopefully an ipd turbo cam and my adjustable cam gear will help spool at least a bit, might start a thread about that. Maybe a chip to raise the rev limiter to 6700 would help.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 01:31 AM   #142
gsellstr
Vintage anti-ricer
 
gsellstr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Somewhere in a northern California smog bank
Default

That is a bit on the large side. I'm only running a 56-trim which on the setup I've got with a .63 hotside is still good for 400-450hp per Garrett.
gsellstr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 01:37 AM   #143
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

So do you agree that it could just be lag? What part of the turbo would he best to change for faster spool? Smaller comp wheel? .48 AR housing? What's the cheapest way to quicken spool? I'm only aiming for around 300 BHP.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 01:37 AM   #144
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxitoman007 View Post
Update: did some research and I'm starting to think that it might just be because of how large my turbo actually is. With a 60 AR cold side .60 trim comp wheel, and a .63 ar exhaust side with a stage 3 turbine this much lag should be expected?
Nope, something else is wrong, I haven't read the entire thread but for sure something else is wrong.

Can you get the WG to stick closed ( no vac lines to it) and see how the turbo spools?

Have you checked your timing and all of the basics? What cam?

with a chip you could rev it out to say 7000rpm, much better than the stock 6250.

If the car is not idling at 14.2-15.2 (aka 14.7:1) then you have something wrong, if the car is idling at 2000rpm then something is wrong. Is there any other TBer's near by that can stop by and help out? this sounds like a lot of basic stuff that an extra set of hands could help make sense of.

Have you done a pressure test and check for leaks?
__________________
Chip Feedback Thread / PM LH 2.4 Chip Prices
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 01:40 AM   #145
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

I've heard 7000 is close to reaching valve float on these engines. Ugh, something is wrong!? I'll try with no lines going to the gate tomorrow possibly. I do have a plug I could use to temporarily close off the port on the mani. Just wishing I could spend a day with one of you Volvo gods and figure this out. I checked timing today and everything checks out. Still running the stock T cam but I'm hoping for an IPD turbo cam for Christmas haha.

Car is idling around 14.5 AFR at 1000 rpm. If I lean it out any more than that the idle gets rough. Like misfire rough. Even idling now it seems to miss occasionally. I did check for spark with a timing light and all cylinders are getting a consistent spark signal so that leaves fuel. I tried pulling the injector connectors but it seems to run strong on 3 cylinders with any 1 connector unplugged. Could possibly try running it on pairs to try and pinpoint a culprit cylinder. As for pressure testing I have not done that yet besides using my mouth haha I heard that if it was a boost leak through the intake it would be quite obvious so I figured human lung psi would suffice to find any large gaping leaks.

Don't know of any fellow TBers here in Calgary Alberta. Wishing the members map was working so I could find out haha.

Last edited by maxitoman007; 12-05-2017 at 02:50 AM..
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 03:17 PM   #146
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Did you do anything about the boost pressure over pressure switch. This switch is designed to cut the ground connection between the LH2.2 ECM and the fuel system relay upon the boost pressure exceeding the set limit resulting in shutting down the fuel pumps and the injectors.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 03:57 PM   #147
GTJordan
Been here for too long
 
GTJordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Edmonton AB
Default

I'm in Edmonton. But you'd have to get here....
__________________
80 242- 2.5L, T5, Porsche brakes, short billies and kaplenkhe suspension, trutrack.
Project Thread- http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=324470
GTJordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 04:09 PM   #148
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

The human psi will not be enough to find anything, build a pressure test setup, you do not need an air compressor as you can even just use a spare tire with 40-50psi to test it for a short time.

First test I would do is a pressure test, and then try with the WG closed or bypassed and be careful on the test drive as if all is well it should spool fairly quick and be unlimited boost so watch out. Only takes one or two times getting on the throttle to know that it is spooling correct. Once you know that you can figure out if you have the WG and EBC setup right.
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 04:31 PM   #149
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

How would I use the spare tire ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTJordan View Post
I'm in Edmonton. But you'd have to get here....
Thanks for the offer but I don’t think I’ll have the chance to make it out
there. Did find a couple people from calgary on here eventually and sent a couple pms, no replies yet though. My local Volvo club’s forum doesn’t seem to be very active anymore and I’m not even able to completely register so that doesn’t help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lummert View Post
Did you do anything about the boost pressure over pressure switch. This switch is designed to cut the ground connection between the LH2.2 ECM and the fuel system relay upon the boost pressure exceeding the set limit resulting in shutting down the fuel pumps and the injectors.
There is no longer a boost line connected to the overboost switch so I don’t think that’s a possibility.

Last edited by maxitoman007; 12-05-2017 at 04:38 PM..
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 07:41 PM   #150
maxitoman007
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

I think I may have discovered something. I forgot to mention that I am pretty new to driving stick and boosted cars so I don’t really know what certain things feel like. I was driving with a buddy today and let him drive and he told me something wasn’t right. Rpms climbed waaay too quick after 4800 for how it felt. Initially he thought it was the clutch but even after doing multiple pulls, there was no smell. His other suggestion was tire spin. I’ve never thought about this but maybe I’m just losing traction when boost really comes on and that’s why the rpms shoot up late meaning it’s not a powerband issue.
maxitoman007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.