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Old 12-04-2017, 02:24 PM   #1
itsacrazyasian
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Current vehicle and setup
1991 940 B230ft automatic, had previously swapped to a 15g turbo. I took it apart, rebuilt it and send it out to get balanced. Came back and the car ran strong with the 15g. have 3in exhaust, 3in maf with 42lb injectors, chipped, cammed. The nut backed off the turbo and it flew apart. So i swapped in a 50 trim turbo and the car is really really strong top end but i can't stand the mid end loss especially since i daily drive the car in traffic and it makes it miserable. Its almost as bad as driving a na B230 wagon.

Anyways i was thinking about ordering the Kinguawa 19T upgrade and drop it in my turbine housing. I loved the way the 15G spooled and kicked the car in the butt and it just took off hard. PLus with the 50 trim my transmission doesn't like that power in the top end especially when it tries to hold 4th when im not paying attention and kick it out of OD i can feel it slip. The trans is modded, with a big cooler. Car has a NPR intercooler in it also. Is the 19T upgrade worth it? Its a bit of work going back to a stock exhaust manifold (i had mine milled) but i'm also afraid the 19T will come into boost too late? I know it spools a little later than the 15G. Any real world experiences before i waste more money
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:41 PM   #2
EivlEvo
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I mean this is the million dollar question isn't it? And you're going to kick over the hive if people have enough energy to reply.

Here are the things I would consider.

1. If the 15G is your benchmark, but too low on power(?), and a 50 trim is too low on low/mids, where do you want to be?
2. If you're talking about manifolds, consider how far you'd like to take that, and what other turbo's might exist that would better pair with the engine AND style of driving you're after.
3. A 19T is certainly an upgrade over a 15G. I might argue that a 15G will struggle to get into the 300's, where a 19T will get you into the low 300's. But if we start talking about area under the curve, and what/how it gets used... then those numbers are nearly meaningless.

Plus... if your trans has started slipping already... you're probably getting close to the time of having to address that.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:58 PM   #3
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I am by no means a tbricks master but if you feel like you're lacking power down low, I believe an advanced adjustable cam gear can help shift your powerband down a bit albeit maybe not as much as you're looking for.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:14 PM   #4
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In the same boat.....sub'd.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
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I am by no means a tbricks master but if you feel like you're lacking power down low, I believe an advanced adjustable cam gear can help shift your powerband down a bit albeit maybe not as much as you're looking for.
Power band related to cam timing is different than efficiency from the turbo.

OP - If you're getting slippage right now in 3rd, your trans isn't too long for this world at current power levels. Throwing a 19T at it certainly won't help that side of things either.

Sorry, can't help on the driveability of the 19t, never driven one. I can relate though. The Holset was fun once it lit off but down low where you needed it, getting moving, out into traffic etc. it just didn't have it. The 15G was great about that, the Garrett is as well, almost a little too much. lol
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:51 PM   #6
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Worth noting that my 15G with autotragic vs. my 15G with T5 trans (260 box out of V6 with a 93 245 rear diff) is quite different. I have a holset 341 sitting in my living room to install, but I wanted to wait and see what the verdict was after the manual install.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:28 PM   #7
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Certainly, advancing the cam a little bit can help.... depending on the cam. Get that intake valve closed so that you're starting with a full stack on the compression stroke.

Can you just do another 15g? I've not seen good things about Kinugawa turbos. Lots of evidence that shafts go all wiggly pretty quick. I do have a Kinugawa wastegate on my 13C, and it's quite good so far.

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Old 12-04-2017, 08:29 PM   #8
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I have a rebuilt aw71 ready to go. Was thinking about a AW72L for lockup for better mileage since im on the open highway quite a bit and the lack of lockup is pretty horrid. I had swapped a m47 in this car at one point and i have a T5 for it.

I actually thought hard about getting a new CHRA for the 15G and getting another stock exhaust manifold and tossing it back on because i really liked the way the car pulled especially with the ipd cam. I've messed around with the timing and i'm advanced 5 degrees on the cam.

Whatever and however i mod the car for reliability in mind. I drove this car almost 45K last year including a trip to Pennsylvania so i don't like the possibility of having to do things twice. I'm still a bit upset at the turbo shop because i put a paint mark on the stem and it was disturbed. Red Loctite was installed by me so there should have been no reason for the nut to back off as it was properly torqued.

I just figure before i buy a new chra for a 15g the 19t seemed like it would be a decent option. I've used their stuff in the past and its been pretty darn good. Their hardware and accessories (im using their oil feed stuffs for the turbo now)

The turbo currently on the car now is off my friend 2.3 Ford. Garrett 50 trim, .63 a/r turbine housing. If what i've researched is correct about mitsu turbos not using a true a/r designation but volume, it looks like it converts to about .49 a/r with the 15g turbine housing. Coupled with the 19T compressor and chra....

I have a complete 347 stroker out of a rolled explorer i had planned for this car but the thing was so much fun with the 15G, NPR intercooler and running well for once that it was more fun romping around with the 4 cylinder. Its especially great when people see they got spanked by a wagon still on the stock motor.

I was talking to Kyle who bought my m47 setup out of this car and he swore that the cam would wake the car up after the 15G. He was right. The 15G wasn't "down on power" but in the quest of wanting more. So 19T? I do love the top end power the 50 trim makes. Based on my a/f im out of injector though too.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:34 PM   #9
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i guess i should have clarified that i felt the trans slip while IN OD. Was cruising the highway and the RPM's are pretty high to begin with and the turbo spooled while the trans stayed in 4th and it didn't like it. If i manually lock it out of OD its ok. Then again my 4R70W ford's never liked boost in OD either but when it blows, it blows. Went auto to manual back to auto again. Whats one more trans swap
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:18 PM   #10
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You're out of injector on a 3 inch MAF and 42's? What boost are you running? Out of injector on the 15g or your 50 trim?

I'm on a 15G with IPD cam and all 3" with stock AMM and orange tops out of the 850. At 15psi I have more fuel.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:45 PM   #11
itsacrazyasian
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on the 50 trim. She hit 25psi pulling hard then i watched the fuel go to about 12.5 wot
with the 15g, 3in maf and blue 39's she was always happy
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:37 AM   #12
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25psi yeah, you're out of injector. At 18 I was running about 75% DC on my #65's. Also 42's are right on the bare minimum for the 3" AMM.

If you want to go lockup, go 71L, not 72L. The 71L is a lot more stout, plus one the accumulator is blocked, they'll hold 300 pretty solid. I've spooled mine up plenty with the converter locked, never had an issue. Pulled pretty well given the ratio as well.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsacrazyasian View Post
on the 50 trim. She hit 25psi pulling hard then i watched the fuel go to about 12.5 wot
with the 15g, 3in maf and blue 39's she was always happy
Are we considering 12.5 AFR too lean at WOT? Honest question.

I have a Kinugawa 19t on my B23, but it has ET pistons and a SCR around 9.2:1. With the high SCR it spools instantly, to the point that LH 2.4 can't really keep up. Keep that in mind.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:25 AM   #14
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Good point Tyler. I keep forgetting, the SCR on mine is 9.0 as well.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:25 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Tfrasca View Post
Are we considering 12.5 AFR too lean at WOT? Honest question.

I have a Kinugawa 19t on my B23, but it has ET pistons and a SCR around 9.2:1. With the high SCR it spools instantly, to the point that LH 2.4 can't really keep up. Keep that in mind.
I believe 12.5 is statistically where you will make your best power, but I think many would suggest that it is too lean in that it is on the wrong edge of the safe side.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:27 AM   #16
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12.5 isn't bad, but it doesn't leave much margin.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:32 PM   #17
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Leaner the meaner but frankly its a bit too lean for my tastes with LH.

So aw71L, i'll have to look for that. I'm ready for a set of 55's i believe. I have a stock ford focus 310lph pump in tank so i should be good for fuel. undercar pump is bypassed.

I do understand the limitations of LH and its inability to react to sudden throttle requests usually results in a bog or lean spot as it struggles to respond. I have MS on the horizon here but LH has actually surprised me.

I'm going to pick up a core motor today which comes with a turbo manifold and a 13C so i can put a 19T back on the car and build the core motor to replace the current one. I'll bump the compression and at that time i'll convert to MS but i don't see that day coming within the next year. The kick in the pants with the 15G is what i miss with the 50 trim, i'm hoping the 19T with its reputation of bending rods in the whiteblock motors gives me the same feel as the 15G with a little more top end.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:33 PM   #18
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Trafasca, was the 19T the only turbo you had on? How do you like it?
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:12 PM   #19
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Trafasca, was the 19T the only turbo you had on? How do you like it?
Yeah, unfortunately I don't have a baseline comparison to a 15g or anything. Plus my car is lighter, geared lower, and quite differently set up. All I can say is that the 19t spools really fast with a little preload on the wastegate actuator. I actually backed off the preload a touch to try to slow down the spool.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:24 PM   #20
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I've had 16t's on my car before and a k24 from an s60R and currently a 50 trim. I've got to say that I'm ok with where the turbo comes in. If you want mid range but are ok with sacrificing top end throw an M cam in there. I run currently a 50 trim, NPR, Green giant injectors, M cam, m90 transmission and a 240 motor with stock rods and pistons, 20psi and it can keep up with more powerful cars.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:43 PM   #21
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you think the M cam would out twist the IPD turbo cam even advanced?
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:00 PM   #22
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m cam is just for low to mid range torque. Not much but it makes it a little more bearable please note that it doesn't give you any power gain. That being said I'm changing to a bigger cam not sure which yet.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:45 PM   #23
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That designation is the factory turbo cam in comparison to the M cam? Quick google search yields lots of A/B IPD turbo and VX cam discussion but not much M.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:12 PM   #24
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That's because a lot of people just chuck the M cam as junk.

The M cam, being stock mostly is a torque-y cam. The turbo will then magnify the cams capabilities.

Certainly there are better breathing cams, researching profiles and fitting them based on your needs will be a good start.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:24 PM   #25
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The stock turbo cam was a TURD.

I couldnt believe how much power the car picked up with the ipd turbo cam mid and top end.
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