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Old 11-07-2018, 01:18 PM   #1
EivlEvo
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Default Tons of smoke right after turbo? Died. No Start.

Sigh... it's been a garbage week squad.

93 245 +T using a 19T on seals about 2 months old.

Was driving and hit a bump and THOUGHT I heard a clang. All of the sudden the car was running like it had a boost leak. Pulled over. Died.

Popped the hood. Nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing really noticeable. No residue. Nothing leaking. One of my students noticed me and pulled over to see what was up. Had him crank it... it really tried to fire, but just wouldn't. Then after a fair amount of cranking...

A ton of white smoke came off of the downpipe? Not OUT of the pipe... OFF of it... like someone just poured water on it.

Am I to correctly assume headgasket? Oil and water looked fine at the time... What else should I look at when I take it apart?
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:58 PM   #2
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Check coolant connections on turbo and all the coolant lines around it. You could just be spraying coolant on the down pipe from a leak, idk how that’d make a no start though... Also probably try to run without the amm and see if it starts.
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:03 PM   #3
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Tried the AMM and it made no difference. The coolant lines are still good and are on the cold side of the turbo. Whatever was getting blasted seemed to be internal? Something isn't adding up just yet.

I only did a 5 minute side of the road check so far though.
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:18 PM   #4
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Tried the AMM and it made no difference. The coolant lines are still good and are on the cold side of the turbo. Whatever was getting blasted seemed to be internal? Something isn't adding up just yet.

I only did a 5 minute side of the road check so far though.
Yeah itís starange itís smoking on the outside of the pipe, Iíve leaked oil out of the banjo bolt and had this but more blueish grey. Hg leak would have to be big to shut down a b230 like that. Any chance your exhaust got plugged and now the weakest point is now the wastegate exhaust interface? Idk someone smarter than I will chime in.
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:48 PM   #5
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It's def confusing. It's possible that something plugged up the exhaust I guess, but I mean... I run a filter. It seemed in tact? I suppose the AMM could've sent some FOD into the turbo. I'd be surprised if a 3 inch downpipe was just clogged with... stuff? I feel like I've gotta be looking at something serious here?
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:31 PM   #6
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Spark? Fuel inkector pulse and pressure? Compression?
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:22 PM   #7
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Pull a spark plug and look at it. Also if coolant sprayed out onto the downpipe it could also have gotten on the plug wires. If the plug wires are marginal it could short out the spark?

Oh and I have also had a garbage week. Sometimes it's just that way.
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:31 PM   #8
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Everything was dry at the time. I looked at it at work before I left and everything was also dry. But all my coolant is gone. Oil looked fine.

Seems like it's gotta be HG. I'll try and drag it to home base this weekend.

Garbage weeks for everyone!
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:56 PM   #9
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there is a coolant pipe running under the exh manifold between the back of the waterpump and the hose to the heatercore.
That pipe or hose connection might have failed spraying coolant on the downpipe. Worth a closer look.
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Old 12-01-2018, 04:45 PM   #10
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Alright crew... it blew up. Someone should help me here but I believe this is a dropped valve?

First, during my disassembly today I found this in the t-stat housing...


Then, when I got the head off I noticed a valve shaped silver sheen on cyl 3


Once I got a look at the cylinder head I noticed my #3 intake (those are the larger ones correct?) valve appeared to be sticking out WELL below the line of the head and also... stuck, and also... uhh... not in it's sleeve? Correct me on any of this...


From below (piston side)


From above (cam side)


Dental pick pointing at valve stem (still above)


What options do I have here...?
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Old 12-01-2018, 04:53 PM   #11
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Basically, since the piston is already clearanced I should just rent the 16v clearancing tool and go 16v right? What do I really need...? Or I guess 302, or I guess put my other 530 head on and dgaf about that piston or...
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Old 12-01-2018, 05:09 PM   #12
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Throw another head on it. Lol but I wonder if that dimple will cause any turbulence issues or cause any knock.

What causes this type of failure?
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Old 12-01-2018, 05:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseRing View Post
I wonder if that dimple will cause any turbulence issues or cause any knock.
Imperceptible loss of compression. Smooth the edges with Emory cloth and run it.

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What causes this type of failure?
Overrevving a high lift cam on factory springs is one sure fire way. BTDT.
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:07 PM   #14
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Imperceptible loss of compression. Smooth the edges with Emory cloth and run it.



Overrevving a high lift cam on factory springs is one sure fire way. BTDT.


Does that mean a valve spring may have broken?
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:09 PM   #15
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Does that mean a valve spring may have broken?
That is highly likely. But, I don't see it mentioned. Mine definitely broke.

My head was repaired. New, "heavy duty" springs were used on the head I had repaired.

Last edited by swedefiend; 12-01-2018 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
First, during my disassembly today I found this in the t-stat housing...
I am somewhat concerned about this. Have you identified the origin of this piece?
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:50 PM   #17
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A couple things I can clarify...

1. The spring was fine. Even still had the husher on it lol...
2. I do have the IPD turbo cam, but unlike my Evo, I rarely get this car over 6k rpm because honestly... it feels like it's going to light on fire (it's like a 400k engine lol)
3. I'm sort of concerned about this piece as well... what I know is that it's magnetic which implies that it's not from the head. It was in the head side of the tstat housing tho. I suspect since the valve seems to have dropped and then blasted itself into the head that this could be material related to that? There also was an oddity in the block where one of the head bolts goes (this would have put it into the water jacket) but I can't really tell anything about any of it...

I didn't get a pic of it, but it's on head bolt #8 which is on the exhaust side between cyls 1 and 2. It just seems like there's a chunk missing... but I can't see any issue it would cause? Additionally, I replaced the tstat on the motor not that long ago (maybe a month or two) and it wasn't there so I would assume it's from this debacle...

NOW... the head gasket looked perfectly fine. But the cylinders AND the oil pan were FULL of coolant (2 for sure, all 4 based on plugs). Am I to understand that this whole event lifted the head enough to mix everything?

I have another motor but it's skinny rod vs this one which is a squirter block and big rod.
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:53 PM   #18
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I guess I'm trying to figure out where that bit could be from and how it could get to where it was...

Obviously that valve stem has displaced some metal but... with the spring and the bucket in place I'm not sure how that could get itself into the top part of the head?

I suppose it could be FOD from the turbo which I haven't evaluated yet?
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:03 PM   #19
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Obviously that valve stem has displaced some metal but... with the spring and the bucket in place I'm not sure how that could get itself into the top part of the head?
Springs get weak too. Mine were tested by machine shop but one broke anyway. Valve barely touched the piston and was in the extended position about a millimeter off the seat. As a result, it was torched pretty well. Got really lucky that the head didn't separate from the stem.

Anyway, with a weak spring and a high lift cam it could be possible for the valve piston sequence to become sufficiently out of sync to cause full contact under certain circumstances. (Que John V to refute my claims and make limp pecker cam references, LOL).

You mentioned going over a bump and hearing a noise...

Is this car a manual transmission per chance? Had the head ever been shaved? Adjustable cam gear?

Last edited by swedefiend; 12-01-2018 at 07:15 PM..
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:15 PM   #20
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From the pic looks like the valve guide came apart. The part you found in the water coolant passage is what your trying to figure out came from? That is probably something from inside the water parts of the motor, maybe part of an old water pump impeller or something like that. Piece of old thermostat? Probably not from the combustion chamber area of the motor.
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:23 PM   #21
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I think the guide came apart after the valve hit the piston.

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Old 12-01-2018, 07:33 PM   #22
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Yeah this head is shaved and it was shaved a LOT like 7 thou iirc. With the IPD cam I know that some of my shims were maaaaayyybbeeee a little too tight on the feeler gauge even with the thinnest ones but also... you know. Perfect compression, huge vacuum, and boosted to 15psi on a 19t no issues.

Yeah it's manual. T5 swapped. Why you ask?
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:35 PM   #23
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If I had to guess the guide (seems in three parts like an expanding brick wall anchor lag) let the valve drop and it hit the piston just right (knock noise) and nail gunned it into the head. This caused my compression to go away and the car stopped.
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:53 PM   #24
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Yeah it's manual. T5 swapped. Why you ask?
I had another incident when the car was NA. Foot slipped off the clutch while parking. Engine died and wouldn't restart. Destroyed a VX cam that way.

Exact mode of failure unknown. Shim was wedged between cup and cam. Cam lobe was destroyed on intake. Valve keeper came out, valve dropped and hit piston.

Head was shaved about seven thousandths. Timing belt tensioner was loose unless pushed OUT with a prybar before locking the roller in place.

Anyway, was wondering if the clutch engagement caused a similar stall / destruction dance in your situation.

Sucks either way. But at least your engine is OAF
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
If I had to guess the guide (seems in three parts like an expanding brick wall anchor lag) let the valve drop and it hit the piston just right (knock noise) and nail gunned it into the head. This caused my compression to go away and the car stopped.
Nah, I'm nearly 100% positive that the destroyed guide is the result of the valve being dropped. NOT the cause.
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