240 Mech Fan Getting Wrecked. Efan?

Squad.

On my 93 245 +T I've been addressing a number of issues at once while the car is down swapping from 15G to 19T.

The one on the docket today is... the fan.

I don't have any cooling issues, but I wasn't water cooling my 15G either and I plan to water cool the 19T. I have a 240 turbo fan shroud and a tropical clutch. But my fan blades are cracked and chipped up pretty good from the motor rocking back and forth like a boss when I hammer it.

I have one of those baller metal rads with the temp switch in it (I think it's a temp switch anyway... it's one of the metal 3 row rads) and I was wondering if going to an efan is basically... get the fan, wire it to this switch in the rad (after confirming it's operation) and power and ground and call it good? What am I missing?

I've seen a bunch of people talking about running it off the ECU which I'm not certain how to do yet, and some people mention running a switch in the cabin... which I'm not keen on.

I know there's a ton of chatter on efan isn't as good as mech fan, but this seems like a thing I should consider.

My Efan setup works well even in stand still traffic, but I don't have AC.

I use a Dakota fan controller for ramp up on the fan, sudden large loads aren't great for the charging system. Use a relay of course to handle the load of the fan. A secondary switch inside the car isn't a bad idea in case of the temp switch failure.

I'm not sure of a factory fan controller built into the ECU, but others can chime in on that.

New fan blades and a ratchet strap to keep the engine in place.

I have been using a 940 e-fan on my 240 for many years with no issues. I was using a combination of the ECU (programmable output on Megasquirt set 5 degrees above the thermostat temp) and the A/C compressor (when it still had A/C) to trigger the low speed. I had a radiator with the switch in it and found that it turned on at an uncomfortably high temperature - YMMV. But I used that as a 'dumb' safety to trigger the high speed fan. I really barely ever heard high speed kick on while driving it. Occasionally it would kick on a time or two in really hot weather after shutdown and help cool it off under the hood.

The fan plastic blade section is the same turbo or non turbo. If you are going to use the a/c I would stay with the stock mechanical fan. Just do what John suggests above with the ratchet strap to stop the engine from moving. Or you can get diesel or even the aftermarket heavy duty motor mounts.

If you do convert to efan. Just make sure it has a fail safe like suggested so you can run it with a switch from inside.

I think it is the late model 940 turbos like 92-95 that had the ecu triggered efan. I find those temp settings too high personally though and would like to run the engine a bit cooler than that. Maybe the folks making the chips can also adjust the temp settings now?

I have a spare propeller and I need to sort out the ratchet strap setup. I also have a set of the old poly mounts from RSI on my old motor that despite all the whining, I actually quite liked... tho those first few hundred miles were a bit harsh.

And I DO have a functioning AC system but DON'T have a pusher fan. My temps have been fine on the idiot gauge but...

That electric switch in the radiator is for the AC electric fan in front of the radiator that is why it only switches on at real high temps.

The later cars with the stock electric fans that run off the ECU have a relay by the battery that switches on the efan first low speed then high speed. The two wires from the 9xx ECU that run it trigger the relay by grounding it. I've added two wires from the ECU to the front of the car and added the relay and electric fan before and then you need the 9xx ecu to run it.

Need to check, but fairly certain I have a 9 series ECU running things. Any idea what pins?

I also have MS2 in the wings now so that's an option for ECU control...

JohnMc said:

New fan blades and a ratchet strap to keep the engine in place.

I have been using a 940 e-fan on my 240 for many years with no issues. I was using a combination of the ECU (programmable output on Megasquirt set 5 degrees above the thermostat temp) and the A/C compressor (when it still had A/C) to trigger the low speed. I had a radiator with the switch in it and found that it turned on at an uncomfortably high temperature - YMMV. But I used that as a 'dumb' safety to trigger the high speed fan. I really barely ever heard high speed kick on while driving it. Occasionally it would kick on a time or
two in really hot weather after shutdown and help cool it off under the hood.

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^ what he said.

EivlEvo said:

I have a spare propeller and I need to sort out the ratchet strap setup. I also have a set of the old poly mounts from RSI on my old motor that despite all the whining, I actually quite liked... tho those first few hundred miles were a bit harsh.

And I DO have a functioning AC system but DON'T have a pusher fan. My temps have been fine on the idiot gauge but...

Click to expand...

Sorry for the book..here we go

Bypass your board for safety measures. IME, ac isn?t a good idea at idle without a pusher fan or primary electric. Sure it worked for x amount of years. But trust me it?s no where near as good as with a pusher fan. Think about this. On cold start, mechanical fan is engaged, then disengages after 30 seconds of idling/driving. If your ac is on, there?s essentially no airflow over the condenser after 30 seconds until you start driving. Pressures go wayyy up.

I just recently installed an entire new ac system in our neighbors 93 Toyota pickup. I started by installing a new aisin brand fan clutch that engages and disengages as it should. Anyway, I did an r134a ?conversion? with literally all new parts everywhere except the lines themselves. I cleaned them with ac flush though..once finished and vacuumed/charged, I watched my gauges at idle and after the fan clutch disengaged, the high side slowly rose past 300psi. This isn?t a dangerous number by any means but I put a house ac fan (squirrel cage) blowing on the condenser and numbers immediately dropped 50psi or so. That?s where i think the danger comes from with these clutch fans and no pusher fan. Not to mention ac quality will suck..

I would personally leave the stock clutch and and install an electric pusher fan on the condenser. Or you could even do a puller on the back side of the condenser, either will work.

If you?re dead set on using a primary electric fan, please do a proper install with a good quality temp switch, good relay, and a clean wiring job. I hacked together too much **** and realized how ghetto it was (though it worked! Haha). There?s no sense in skeeting out on your cooling system. And yeah, don?t use the ecu for fan control or the stock temp switch in the rad. As many others state, it?s a bit too toasty.

I wired up a 9 series efan, with it just running on high, with the relay ground
-switched by the radiator thermo switch. The stock settings are a little warm at 190F (ish) on temp, but it never posed an issue in the rally car. Temps never over 205F while racing in 95deg weather.
You can also buy the thermo switches in different temp ranges if that’s your thing.

Get a efan turbo computer and a donor connector/ terminated leads. Then you reference a wiring diagram and wire up the high and low speed wires and run them to the relay.

I removed the mechanical fan and installed a really big electric fan. Worked great but kept having problems with relays and or the temp. switch. So I put the mechanical fan back on and put the electric fan as a pusher. Been working great. I would like to upgrade to a better mechanical fan. I do AC work and the pusher fan does keep high side down. If your running 134a its a must. I agree that if you go with electric in place of mech. fan, have a bypass switch for times that something goes south. Keep us posted on what you decide to do.

FWIW... that pusher fan got removed because it was basically dust. I have had some pressure issues without the pusher fan though... which is super odd since I'm confused how it could've even been running.

Anybody have any specs/recommendations for a pusher fan replacement as an aside?

For the main fan, I don't really WANT to go efan... it just seems easier (grass is always greener).

If I go efan I'll 100% be trying to grab a Volvo setup and wire it as stock.

EivlEvo said:

FWIW... that pusher fan got removed because it was basically dust. I have had some pressure issues without the pusher fan though... which is super odd since I'm confused how it could've even been running.

Anybody have any specs/recommendations for a pusher fan replacement as an aside?

For the main fan, I don't really WANT to go efan... it just seems easier (grass is always greener).

If I go efan I'll 100% be trying to grab a Volvo setup and wire it as stock.

Click to expand...

I put a 16 inch pusher fan on my 90 240, it works great. I also have a 93 with a factory pusher fan, its not much of a fan. I would not put a stock one on your car.
If your going to all the trouble installing a pusher fan, put a bigger and better one on. Mine comes on when AC is activated. My pressure on the high side is 185 with fan on. With it off it climbs to 265. Plus my AC blows 38 degree air. Keep us posted of what ya decide to do.

EivlEvo said:

FWIW... that pusher fan got removed because it was basically dust. I have had some pressure issues without the pusher fan though... which is super odd since I'm confused how it could've even been running.

Anybody have any specs/recommendations for a pusher fan replacement as an aside?

For the main fan, I don't really WANT to go efan... it just seems easier (grass is always greener).

If I go efan I'll 100% be trying to grab a Volvo setup and wire it as stock.

Click to expand...

Spal 14” pusher or puller. Probably medium profile. Depends on your intercooler setup whether it’s full front mount or in the stock location.

90volvo said:

I put a 16 inch pusher fan on my 90 240, it works great. I also have a 93 with a factory pusher fan, its not much of a fan. I would not put a stock one on your car.
If your going to all the trouble installing a pusher fan, put a bigger and better one on. Mine comes on when AC is activated. My pressure on the high side is 185 with fan on. With it off it climbs to 265. Plus my AC blows 38 degree air. Keep us posted of what ya decide to do.

Click to expand...

Does 16? fit on the condenser? I didn?t think it did.

Also 185 is pretty low for high side pressures I thought. Maybe it?s just based off of which refrigerant you?re using.

Some people say the stock pusher fan sucks but that?s just because of how the factory shrouded it. If you seal the gaps it?ll actually almost keep your car cool as a primary fan, but I wouldn?t do that.

PromiseRing said:

Spal 14? pusher or puller. Probably medium profile. Depends on your intercooler setup whether it?s full front mount or in the stock location.

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I have one of those laughably huge ebay IC's that's 3 inches but I DO have it in the stock location which I'm sure it a recipe for disaster.

I'm thoroughly in the phase of... I resurrected this car. Got it stage zero properly. Then boosted it as "proof of concept" and now I'm going through doing things properly so it isn't such a hack job.

To be clear though... it wasn't really a hack job... I just want it to be well sorted and there are some things that I did because it was "good enough" to ensure it'd work properly.

One of these things is really addressing the cooling systemS for the car (AC/IC/RAD/Turbo) and get it looking tidy in there.

I'm seeing what prices for what parts exist out there and as I do with most of my threads will certainly post follow ups. You can basically watch the ebb and flow of WTH is going on because my project thread (which is roughly 5 projects behind where I am with the car (on purpose)) will stall while I ask these preposterous questions on here that have been answered hundreds of times and write these essays. Then things will be functional, and I'll go back and update the project thread lol.

Anybody know the CFM specs on any of these fans btw? I imagine that info is long unknown.

EivlEvo said:

Anybody know the CFM specs on any of these fans btw? I imagine that info is long unknown.

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Which fan? The stock 2 speed is pretty hard to beat especially for the price. Keep in mind most CFM rating as bs unless the manufacturer also specifies the CFM at x static pressure. Spal does this, most others don?t.

Right. I mean... it's 2018. Everything is BS.

fan

PromiseRing said:

Does 16” fit on the condenser? I didn’t think it did.

Also 185 is pretty low for high side pressures I thought. Maybe it’s just based off of which refrigerant you’re using.

Some people say the stock pusher fan sucks but that’s just because of how the factory shrouded it. If you seal the gaps it’ll actually almost keep your car cool as a primary fan, but I wouldn’t do that.

Click to expand...

Forgot to mention it is a bigger than factory condenser. The fan is 3000 cfm but who knows if thats true or not. But will say it pushes more air than the stock one.