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Old 09-02-2020, 10:16 AM   #1
vwblue1967
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Default Clutch noise

85 245 w/m46

I purchased the wagon and drove it for a year or so and the clutch started make a rattling noise when i pressed in the clutch. I assumed the throwout bearing was on its way out so i had a shop replace all of the clutch components, was fine for a few years.

The noise came back- im thinking this time it was because i didnt adjust the clutch properly and i was riding the throwout bearing for too long.

Just installed a new clutch kit last week (pilot bearing, PP, disc, STS cable bushing) and im occasionally getting the same noise. The car has always drove fine, ive never noticed it slipping and my work commute is over 60 miles. No issues other than the noise. The sound doesnt match the engine rpm it sounds more like something is loose and is shaking but only when i push in the clutch. I was thinking maybe its the clutch arm but it seems the pressure of the cable pulling it would keep it tight.

Anyone have any ideas what it could be? Thanks
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:51 AM   #2
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I had rattling noise at the same time when my clutch was near end of its life. There was rattling noise only when clutch was up and gear in neutral. People told me, that my gearbox was broken, but after all, it was throwout bearing, which was wear out. Right clutch adjustment is very important. My gearbox is M47.
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwblue1967 View Post
adjust the clutch properly
From semi-trucks to automobiles with stick-shift transmissions, the throw-out bearing will not be "riding" on clutch's 'fingers' (diaphragm) when not shifting gears.

dl242gt says, "Put the car up on ramps and check the free play at the release arm. That should be about 2 to 4mm. Don't go by the pedal."

Sidebar - Scroll down the page: New Volvo open design

"Newer style Clutch Release Fork VO-1220763 you will also need the fork 'Lock Spring' VO-1377132"

Thread on Forks: M46/7 Hydraulic Clutch Fork vs M90 Clutch Fork
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Old 09-07-2020, 10:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
From semi-trucks to automobiles with stick-shift transmissions, the throw-out bearing will not be "riding" on clutch's 'fingers' (diaphragm) when not shifting gears.

dl242gt says, "Put the car up on ramps and check the free play at the release arm. That should be about 2 to 4mm. Don't go by the pedal."

Sidebar - Scroll down the page: New Volvo open design

"Newer style Clutch Release Fork VO-1220763 you will also need the fork 'Lock Spring' VO-1377132"

Thread on Forks: M46/7 Hydraulic Clutch Fork vs M90 Clutch Fork
Sorry youre right.... I confused wearing the clutch disc by not releasing fully.

I had the car on jack stands and adjusted to a little under 1/8" which i believe is around 4mm. I tested to see where the wheels started to spin and it seems and feels right to me.

I remember the clutch arm being loose on the pivot ball but not being familiar i wasnt sure it that was normal. I also don't have a return spring (trans side) but its never had one.

Its weird since its intermittent but maybe i can lift it back up and have my wife work the clutch and see if i can get the sound to happen to pinpoint where its coming from.
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
From semi-trucks to automobiles with stick-shift transmissions, the throw-out bearing will not be "riding" on clutch's 'fingers' (diaphragm) when not shifting gears.
Either you haven't worked on multiple brands of cars, or you forgot to include "...with cable actuated clutches..." in the above sentence. I've worked on many cars with free-floating release arms and throw-out bearings, and spring-loaded hydraulic slaves, and I can guarantee that they do indeed "ride the clutch's fingers" all the time.
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:49 PM   #6
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Even some cable actuated clutches run with no free play.

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Old 09-07-2020, 01:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
"ride the clutch's fingers" all the time.
Being attached vs "riding on" are two different concepts. Now if one is suggesting a throw-out bearing is turning when engine is running, then I was not aware...but on semi-trucks, the bearing is attached to clutch, but only spins bearing component when pedal is depressed.

If a throw-out bearing was spinning all the time, without external greasing of it, I suspect it would be shooting craps much sooner than a "vintage" throw-out bearing setup.

So, is bearing spinning always when engine is running, or intermittently like in semi-truck setup?

Note - Rotating in sync with flywheel means the bearing itself is not spinning on its balls or rollers.
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Old 09-07-2020, 01:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Even some cable actuated clutches run with no free play
If adjusted correctly....but is throw-out bearing's "balls or rollers" spinning when adjusted as such?
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Old 09-07-2020, 01:57 PM   #9
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If the bearing is touching the pressure plate it's spinning.
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Old 09-07-2020, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
Being attached vs "riding on" are two different concepts. Now if one is suggesting a throw-out bearing is turning when engine is running, then I was not aware...but on semi-trucks, the bearing is attached to clutch, but only spins bearing component when pedal is depressed.

If a throw-out bearing was spinning all the time, without external greasing of it, I suspect it would be shooting craps much sooner than a "vintage" throw-out bearing setup.

So, is bearing spinning always when engine is running, or intermittently like in semi-truck setup?

Note - Rotating in sync with flywheel means the bearing itself is not spinning on its balls or rollers.

We are not talking about semi trucks here. We are talking about Volvo automobiles. All the hydraulic clutches on the 260, 740 and 940 the throw out bearing runs in constant contact with the release fingers. The same is true with the M47 equipped 240s.
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Old 09-07-2020, 08:27 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
All the hydraulic clutches on the 260, 740 and 940 the throw out bearing runs in constant contact with the release fingers

Via hiperfauto's Volvo notes, I'd say throw-out bearing is not "riding" the clutch fingers, but "floating" adjacent to clutch fingers. Volvo stated a "small pre-load" is applied, which may or may not spin throw-out bearing to engine's RPM
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Old 09-07-2020, 10:12 PM   #12
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It better be spinning the bearing otherwise you’re going to have a nice groove in it since there’s a preload applied and the pressure plate is turning 3000 RPM.
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Old 09-07-2020, 10:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84B23F View Post
Being attached vs "riding on" are two different concepts. Now if one is suggesting a throw-out bearing is turning when engine is running, then I was not aware...but on semi-trucks, the bearing is attached to clutch, but only spins bearing component when pedal is depressed.
I had a quick look via Google (5 seconds or so?), and found some old trucker's forum talking about greasing the release bearing...

https://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...earing.179783/

The throwout bearing pushes against the pressure plate allow the clutch to disengage. The clutch fork is what puts the pressure on the pressure plate........

This is a good explanation of a push type clutch in a car or pickup. However trucks use a pull type clutch. The throwout bearing is attached to the pressure plate. The fork pulls the bearing back towards the transmission to disengage the clutch, and the throwout bearing turns 100% of the time the engine is running which is why they are greasable.
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Old 09-08-2020, 12:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
I had a quick look via Google (5 seconds or so?), and found some old trucker's forum talking about greasing the release bearing...

FWIW, I installed an Eaton 7 / VCT Plus (308925-20 (-30)) clutch in a 2004 Freightliner last week. There needs to be about 13mm gap between its bearing and the input shaft's brake disc. I'm quite aware this bearing is pulled.

Point here on vintage-automobile and truck clutch setups is these bearing's inwards are not spinning all the time, but only when clutch pedal is pressed. Bearings last much longer when not in motion all of the time.
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Old 09-08-2020, 10:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
trucks use a pull type clutch

The expression "semi-truck" has had different meanings; its too abstract; analogous to the word "truck," which could connote a Class-8 truck to a child's backyard play truck. As Wiki notes, Truck classification, there are 8 types of motor powered trucks, and can be defined in terms of "typically using the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) and sometimes also the gross trailer weight rating (GTWR), and can vary among jurisdictions."

In short, I should not have used the 'semi-truck' word, and should have been more specific. Semi-trucks can use either a pull type clutch, which generally have a greaseable bearing, or push type clutch, which generally do not have a greaseable bearing.
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Old 09-08-2020, 11:35 PM   #16
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Eh, whatever.

I still say Vanilla ice cream is better than Chocolate, and you'll never change my mind.
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Old 09-09-2020, 12:00 AM   #17
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As the clutch disc wears the "fingers/surface" will move towards the transmission. If no adjustment is made the release bearing will get tighter and tighter to the point that it is holding the clutch in, like you have your foot on the pedal. A parts car that I bought had this problem [87 245 w/ M47] to the point that the clutch slipped. My MG Midget and my MGB both have graphite release bearings, hyd cyls, they just touch/ ride on the P/Plate.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
Eh, whatever.
I come from the time when 'Brownie Boxes" and "4x4" transmissions were used.

There are pull based clutches, and there are push based clutches, and semi-trucks have used both, which includes gas powered semi-trucks.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
It better be spinning the bearing otherwise
RE: 1967 Dodge D100

The BOOK says:
There should be just a bit (.010") of clutch pedal free play inside the cab.
Actuating rod (at clutch fork) should also have about the same (.010").
Should be at least 1" of clutch pedal reserve after clutch is fully disengaged.
===================

In short, adjustment (or no adjustment) depends upon OEM's design. If Volvo allowed for clutch pedal reserve, then a person could adjust with or without touching bearing, if a traditional clutch fork setup was used.
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