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Old 06-30-2014, 07:53 PM   #26
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We never got around to doing it but if you look - bondo showed a way to do it with some half moon shaped spacers. You just need to keep the cam from sliding forward iirc
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by tomasss View Post
As I wrote on the start of the topic, "My situation is, I have a 1994 960 with 2001 S80 3.0 engine, the ECU and all electrical stuff is original from 960". So the ECU doesn't know about VVT and there is no support for this..
I saw your PM so thought I'd just reply here.

The cylinder heads changed a lot over the years, so its hard to say what can be made to work with what. A some point they got solid lifters and at some point the whole base circle also changed.

You need to measure and compare the journal diameters, base circles, etc and see what's what.

That head has solid lifters pretty much for sure. I don't know what it'd take to keep them. Probably more effort than its worth.

Assuming the journal diameters work out I would swap the hydraulic lifters in and do a cursory check on valve clearance. If it seems reasonable then it'll be fairly obvious what needs done from there- you need spacers to keep the cams located axially and hub adapters.

As far as adapting VVT, it would be great if a set of cams existed that were worth controlling. If someone were to get some ground, it'd be a worthwhile exercise. Otherwise it's pointless from anything other than an emissions/mpg perspective.
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Old 07-01-2014, 01:00 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by tomasss View Post
As I wrote on the start of the topic, "My situation is, I have a 1994 960 with 2001 S80 3.0 engine, the ECU and all electrical stuff is original from 960". So the ECU doesn't know about VVT and there is no support for this..
Sorry, must have missed it in the Trainwreck of overthought in this thread. Pretty simple, either get rid of it or get a controller that supports it.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by kildea View Post
We never got around to doing it but if you look - bondo showed a way to do it with some half moon shaped spacers. You just need to keep the cam from sliding forward iirc
Half moon shaped spacers? Any weblink to this? I guess that if I will use the 960 intake cam with its original wheel, there is no more chance of movement of the cam, no?

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Pretty simple, either get rid of it or get a controller that supports it.
Excellent idea, thanks
Another idea came to my mind, to swap the ECU from S80, but even in the first years (1999) it already used the CAN to communicate with all the stuff in the car, so it is not a route for me.
Had no time to try the effect of manual switching, maybe over the weekend, but according to your responses I will probably have to start looking for the 960 intake cam.
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:30 AM   #30
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Half moon shaped spacers? Any weblink to this? I guess that if I will use the 960 intake cam with its original wheel, there is no more chance of movement of the cam, no?

Excellent idea, thanks
Another idea came to my mind, to swap the ECU from S80, but even in the first years (1999) it already used the CAN to communicate with all the stuff in the car, so it is not a route for me.
Had no time to try the effect of manual switching, maybe over the weekend, but according to your responses I will probably have to start looking for the 960 intake cam.

something quite often used here in sweden is using an exhaust vvt on the intake side

this makes the end to end span less just about half .. and it can be used by manual switching
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Old 07-01-2014, 01:27 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Moon_walk View Post
something quite often used here in sweden is using an exhaust vvt on the intake side

this makes the end to end span less just about half .. and it can be used by manual switching
Definitely interesting! Any more info about that? And what about the "missing" range on both ends of the range?

By the way I have found this topic, where it is (from Cpt. Bondo) noted "non vvt late style cams will fit in a vvt head no problem assuming you have the solenoid ports blocked off." So the deal should be only about changing the lifters (if it differs), block the VVT ports and be done with it.
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Old 07-01-2014, 01:35 PM   #32
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Definitely interesting! Any more info about that? And what about the "missing" range on both ends of the range?

By the way I have found this topic, where it is (from Cpt. Bondo) noted "non vvt late style cams will fit in a vvt head no problem assuming you have the solenoid ports blocked off." So the deal should be only about changing the lifters (if it differs), block the VVT ports and be done with it.

on my Engine a b6284t i still have hydraulic liffter not solid ones

there you can swap in for instance the n/a cams from the b6304s3 and

one can also using 2 non vvt cams from same generation and block the vvtsolenoid

for the b6294t use 2 intake cam and rotate exhaust 180* and for the b6304s3 use 2 exhaust cams and rotate the intake cam 180*

and use nonvvt camseal
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:55 PM   #33
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So I checked my engine head, it is the one without hydraulic lifters (= with solid ones). So the cam swap would be more difficult than just about the cams.
I am unable to decide, help me with this guys...
- what will be a better performance option, swapped 960 camshaft with hydraulic lifters or S80 VVT camshaft with the exhaust solenoid controller and rpm on/off switch? Moonwalk, do you have some reference cars with that configuration?
- for me as an electronic geek, I know that the second option will be much simpler to implement for me, but how much more complicated will be the first option, to swap in the hydraulic lifters & camshaft etc? I know cpt.Bondo described what has to be done, but I have never done something like replacing solid lifters by hydraulic...will a good mechanic be able to do that? Or some professional machining is required?
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:13 PM   #34
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So I checked my engine head, it is the one without hydraulic lifters (= with solid ones). So the cam swap would be more difficult than just about the cams.
I am unable to decide, help me with this guys...
- what will be a better performance option, swapped 960 camshaft with hydraulic lifters or S80 VVT camshaft with the exhaust solenoid controller and rpm on/off switch? Moonwalk, do you have some reference cars with that configuration?
- for me as an electronic geek, I know that the second option will be much simpler to implement for me, but how much more complicated will be the first option, to swap in the hydraulic lifters & camshaft etc? I know cpt.Bondo described what has to be done, but I have never done something like replacing solid lifters by hydraulic...will a good mechanic be able to do that? Or some professional machining is required?

if it's simply changing lifters it's as easy as lifting and swapping cams

Engines prior to 2001 used hydraulic all through as far as i know atleast the 6cylinder ones

one option is using old 960 head instead ? they all bolt up together
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:26 AM   #35
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Well if the solid -> hydraulic lifters conversion is just about removing the old ones and inserting the new ones, that sounds simple.
I am sure I have the solid ones now, maybe it is engine model year 2002 (but made in 2001).
Swapping the whole 960 head is not a solution for me, as I have adopted the whole intake from S80 (that didn't fit the 960 head) and made a lot of other changes (water system, throttle body, cruise control, power steering etc..). And I also don't want the heavy octopus style intake. But I am still interested if you have some references to any engine build that has used the exhaust solenoid on intake camshaft, I have searched the web but I couldn't find anything relevant...
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:29 AM   #36
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Well if the solid -> hydraulic lifters conversion is just about removing the old ones and inserting the new ones, that sounds simple.
I am sure I have the solid ones now, maybe it is engine model year 2002 (but made in 2001).
Swapping the whole 960 head is not a solution for me, as I have adopted the whole intake from S80 (that didn't fit the 960 head) and made a lot of other changes (water system, throttle body, cruise control, power steering etc..). And I also don't want the heavy octopus style intake. But I am still interested if you have some references to any engine build that has used the exhaust solenoid on intake camshaft, I have searched the web but I couldn't find anything relevant...

my friend that built an 850 for racing uses a new vvt style head and put an exhaust vvt on intake and put on / off switch on it.

he also shimmed the adjustment to get more narrow adjustment then simply using on / off switching with his haltech
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:38 AM   #37
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Was it a n/a 850 or a turbo one? Do you have some contact so I can discuss with him directly about some details?
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:23 AM   #38
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And one more question - it has been mentioned, that when the solenoid is not driven, the timing of the camshaft will be loose - it will travel randomly based on oil pressure, temperature etc.
When I will mount the exhaust solenoid, I will want only the full_on/full_off positions. What does it mean for the controller? Because unpowered = random, so if I understand it correctly it means I have to connect one wire of the solenoid to solid + and switch the other one between the ground and +.

Last edited by tomasss; 07-06-2014 at 11:09 AM..
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:27 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Captain Bondo View Post
A some point they got solid lifters and at some point the whole base circle also changed.
These go together. Hydro lifter heads have smaller base circle.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:24 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon_walk View Post
something quite often used here in sweden is using an exhaust vvt on the intake side
I probably misinterpreted this sentence...by using the exhaust VVT on the intake side, you mean using the exhaust PULLEY GEAR, right? Not the exhaust SOLENOID.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:30 AM   #41
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I probably misinterpreted this sentence...by using the exhaust VVT on the intake side, you mean using the exhaust PULLEY GEAR, right? Not the exhaust SOLENOID.

Exactly using the exhaust gear open it up and shim it to what ever range you want that's what my friend did and halved the travel to be in the 15* range

Then had it set to a tested rpm to gain in both low and high range

Only reason for swimming was to not have the valves interfere with the pistons
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:31 AM   #42
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I thought that when intake pulley has 50˚ range and no problems with valves interfering the pistons, the exhaust pulley with its 30˚ will be even safer? So it means the exhaust pulley is mounted under different angle? What am I missing in this?
I would really appreciate some more info about the pulley modifications, if you can ask your friend...
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Old 08-24-2014, 03:08 PM   #43
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So, all that stuff around correct VVT control seemed crazy for me, so I decided to keep the engine simple and remove the VVT. Possible donor of the solid gear intake cam was turbocharged B6284T (T6), but after the trial with this cam it was obvious that the T6 cam has low lift (3mm lower than the n/a) and it made the engine ultra lazy, so we decided to remove it again and swap in the exhaust cam from another n/a engine and use it as an intake cam. The specs of intake/exhaust whiteblock cams are the same (lift, duration, etc) so theoretically it should be no problem, and it was no problem even in reality also the range of setting on the cam timing gear makes it possible to play with the engine range (low torque dead top, fifty fifty, or high end power).

More testing/setting is to be done and results to be updated later...


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Old 09-03-2017, 02:30 AM   #44
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A thread from 2014 rises from the dead....




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More testing/setting is to be done and results to be updated later...
Okay, it's 3 years and a week later. Would you like to share what have your tests have revealed so far?

(Discovered this topic while Googling about VVT and the B6304).

Y'see, I've just obtained a B6304 which I'd like to drop into my 780, and I'd like to give the six a bit more ompf before that's done.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:05 PM   #45
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Okay, it's 3 years and a week later. Would you like to share what have your tests have revealed so far?
As far as I know the car still uses this configuration (I am not the owner anymore) and drives just fine.
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:50 AM   #46
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As far as I know the car still uses this configuration (I am not the owner anymore) and drives just fine.
Good to know, thank you.
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