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Old 05-24-2019, 07:40 PM   #1
MikeJr.
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Question What’s the best 24v whiteblock engine?

What is the best 24v engine to use for performance? What’s the best car, and year range to get one out of? How can I avoid VVT? Can you mix and match non-VVT head with later better engine?

I’m sure I’ll have more questions as I think of them

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Old 05-24-2019, 08:56 PM   #2
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Lankku has the answer.......
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:38 PM   #3
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The best? There's only a couple available in North America: B6304 and B6284T. You can build a non-VVT turbo 6 if you mix and match parts. The 960/S90 sixes were non-VVT, and once they started putting them in S80 sedans, they added VVT to one cam (can't remember which one). When they went boosted, they shrunk the bores to 81mm, which made it a 2.8L, and put VVT on both cams.

Really though, the best 24V is the one you can get cheaply, lol.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:43 AM   #4
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why avoid VVT? any modern standalone can handle it nowadays.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:49 AM   #5
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Volvo's VVT is a feedback/PID style that even MS3 Pro has issues with, IIRC.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:00 AM   #6
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What about the SI6 engines from 06-16? How similar are they to the B6304? Will a non-VVT B6304 head fit on a SI6 block?
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke4speed View Post
The 960/S90 sixes were non-VVT, and once they started putting them in S80 sedans, they added VVT to one cam (can't remember which one). When they went boosted, they shrunk the bores to 81mm, which made it a 2.8L, and put VVT on both cams.
All NA 4V whiteblocks from -99 up(and S80 sold in -98) have VVT on the intake side and turbo on the exhaust. From around -03 turbo got them on both cams. B6284T has 81mm bore from the beginning, in Europe it has been sold since the release of S80.

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What about the SI6 engines from 06-16? How similar are they to the B6304? Will a non-VVT B6304 head fit on a SI6 block?
Newer engine is somewhat different design. No timing belt in front of the engine, everything is inbetween/above transmission.

This is how it looks:


I'd say that blocks from -99 up are better than the old ones partly because of oil squirters and have much lighter crankshafts. 81mm bore is naturally the choice for big power.
And newer blocks don't have the problem of cracking the exhaust side and leaking coolant out. Which later will mix with oil because the crack goes through oil return line. Seen it often on -95 and up RWD B6304, but who knows how beaten those have been.

You can install non-VVT head on a FWD block. Most importantly timing belt has to be lined correctly. On older block the guide roller will tilt if just bolted on. Needs washers. Newer block from -00 up has different timing belt setup. The guide still needs to be lifted a bit from the block. There are some other steps to take but all can be done reasonably.

"Best" depends on what you are going to do with said engine and how much it can cost.
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:16 PM   #8
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Are the oil pans interchangeable from the B6304 and the B6284
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:17 PM   #9
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What kind of power are you making on your setup?
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:46 PM   #10
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Pans interchange directly with from -95 up. A mod is needed for oil filter when using an pre-facelift pan to a newer one. Older engine has oil filter directly on the pan and bolt is threaded in to the block. Newer engine has the thread in the pan and nothing in the block.

Most I've had is 800hp/900Nm with B6284T block. While tuning it had 935Nm for a while. Stock B6284T pistons have handled 700hp/840Nm without issues. A couple standing mile pulls, street use, track days, etc. Haven't yet tried if stock ones could take more. There are a couple of cars with roughly the same power numbers and I've heard those are driven hard.
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
What is the best 24v engine to use for performance? What’s the best car, and year range to get one out of? How can I avoid VVT? Can you mix and match non-VVT head with later better engine?
Do you have to use a Volvo engine?

If the answer is not "yes", then you can make a lot of power with a BMW M/S52, and the swap is not (particularly) difficult. That's still 24v, right? 8)

If it's "yes", then please ignore.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:04 AM   #12
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And do this if you really want to push it with high boost figures:









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Old 05-29-2019, 11:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
What is the best 24v engine to use for performance?
The 16 valve LS kind.

You'll make more power from a stock 5.3 than most of the modified whiteblock swaps.

Add a turbo or two and you'll be well double what the whiteblocks will produce.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
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The 16 valve LS kind.

You'll make more power from a stock 5.3 than most of the modified whiteblock swaps.

Add a turbo or two and you'll be well double what the whiteblocks will produce.
Not everyone is interested in the most power possible from an engine.

The LS as a platform definitely has the potential for huge power but just having one doesn't guarantee a spot on the next fast and furious movie (pseudo 10 second car reference). I've seen mid-13 second time slips from people on the board with ls swaps and +T's.

I second the bmw inline 6. I know the bmw m54 you can get with a rear sump with manual transmissions from an e36. Pull one from the jy. Would be great as an NA project or even with turbo. Granted the M54 has lots of bells and whistles (VANOS and the variable intake runner length DISA) but just disable or not use them.

There is always the 1j/2j argument.

Last edited by 740atl; 05-29-2019 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankku View Post
Pans interchange directly with from -95 up. A mod is needed for oil filter when using an pre-facelift pan to a newer one. Older engine has oil filter directly on the pan and bolt is threaded in to the block. Newer engine has the thread in the pan and nothing in the block.

Most I've had is 800hp/900Nm with B6284T block. While tuning it had 935Nm for a while. Stock B6284T pistons have handled 700hp/840Nm without issues. A couple standing mile pulls, street use, track days, etc. Haven't yet tried if stock ones could take more. There are a couple of cars with roughly the same power numbers and I've heard those are driven hard.
Quote:
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The 16 valve LS kind.

You'll make more power from a stock 5.3 than most of the modified whiteblock swaps.

Add a turbo or two and you'll be well double what the whiteblocks will produce.
Getting to these hp/torque figures with an LS is not "that" easy imo. You're to run into cooling issues that are not always easy to fix.

And the I6 sounds better and probably weights less than a truck 5.3 LS motor.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:12 PM   #16
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easier than doing it with a whiteblock (not that that's the point of the thread, mike knows this already). Stock pistons handling 700hp is all well and good, but at that point you've already gone through it, put a set of rods in there and have probably done something for cylinder stability as well (be it sleeves, block-guard, or whatever).

700hp with a gen3 5.3 is a set of injectors, appropriate cam/springs, and decent sized and cheap turbo setup. It really is that easy.
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
easier than doing it with a whiteblock (not that that's the point of the thread, mike knows this already). Stock pistons handling 700hp is all well and good, but at that point you've already gone through it, put a set of rods in there and have probably done something for cylinder stability as well (be it sleeves, block-guard, or whatever).

700hp with a gen3 5.3 is a set of injectors, appropriate cam/springs, and decent sized and cheap turbo setup. It really is that easy.
I don't know how much power RogerDee was making but I think he went through 3 LS blocks in 2 years and he had a lot of problems with heat dissipation/boiling coolant -> blown HG etc... Hardly a reliable setup I might say. But he's pretty good at breaking stuff I might say!
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:32 PM   #18
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some people struggle. I haven't had the heads off or engine out of mine since april of 2015, it made close to 800whp.
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:45 AM   #19
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2J all day errday..
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankku View Post
Newer engine is somewhat different design. No timing belt in front of the engine, everything is inbetween/above transmission.

This is how it looks:

Anybody happen to know if the bellhousing pattern is the same as the B6304S from the 960? A V70 just showed up in my local yard with an Si6 in it...and I like projects...

[edit] Yeah, just found pictures...nevermind. I'd be setting myself up for a very bad time if I tried that.
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
I don't know how much power RogerDee was making but I think he went through 3 LS blocks in 2 years and he had a lot of problems with heat dissipation/boiling coolant -> blown HG etc... Hardly a reliable setup I might say. But he's pretty good at breaking stuff I might say!
Yeaaaa that sounds like 100% user error imo
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:33 PM   #22
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2J all day errday..
being "almost there" on my b6284t setup...I wish I would have spent my money on a 2J or BMW motor instead. The car would already be running and driving with 1/2-2/3 as much money and headache.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:34 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Broke4speed View Post
Anybody happen to know if the bellhousing pattern is the same as the B6304S from the 960? A V70 just showed up in my local yard with an Si6 in it...and I like projects...

[edit] Yeah, just found pictures...nevermind. I'd be setting myself up for a very bad time if I tried that.
READ system..its dog****.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:36 PM   #24
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I second the bmw inline 6. I know the bmw m54 you can get with a rear sump with manual transmissions from an e36. Pull one from the jy. Would be great as an NA project or even with turbo. Granted the M54 has lots of bells and whistles (VANOS and the variable intake runner length DISA) but just disable or not use them.
The M54 is kind of really "meh," especially when thinking about forced induction. The hot ticket is an M52B28 in a 95+ 328. 1000whp has been made on a stock shortblock with a good cutting ring or pyramid ring HG.
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