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Converting to E85 (ethanol fuel)

How realistic is it for me to change an older volvo (late 80's) to stright E85 on a TIGHT budget? 1-200$ max?
Very realistic!

Get a set of bigger injectors for cheap, get them cleaned and installed. That?s it.
 
E85 has done a weird sort of arc in availability here. It was introduced a couple of years ago and priced right (well below gas). Then, for some reason, the prices for it started creeping upwards, until it was at or (in some cases) above the price of gasoline. Obviously not a good deal considering the MPG hit you will be taking. So sales dropped to near nothing, and stations started covering up their E85 pumps. And that's where the situation sits now. I'd like to use it for the 105 octane, but it's not readily available (only a few stations still have their pumps running, none close to me), and too expensive.

When/if the situation returns to reality, I'll try it. I already set up my MS box to do it, roughly set up table 3 by scaling table 1 up 35%, installed a switch to flip to ground JP3 (IIRC) to swap tables, so I could swap between E85 and gasoline without needing a laptop (just run near empty, refill and flip the switch a little bit after starting).
 
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E85 has done a weird sort of arc in availability here. It was introduce a couple of years ago and priced righ (well below gas). Then, for some reason, the prices for ti started creeping upwards, until it was at or (in somecases) above the price of gasoline. Obviously not a good deal considering the MPG hit you will be taking. So sales dropped to near nothing, and stations started covering up their E85 pumps. And that's where the situation sits now. I'd like to use it for the 105 octane, but it's not readily available (only a few stations still have their pumps running, none close to me), and too expensive.

When/if the situation returns to reality, I'll try it. I already set up my MS box to do it, roughly set up table 3 by scaling table 1 up 35%, installed a switch to flip to ground JP3 (IIRC) to swap tables, so I could swap between E85 and gasoline without needing a laptop (just run near empty, refill and flip the switch a little bit after starting).
Can you set it up to have a table 3 for ignition as well?

If you can tune the ignition for maximum power you will gain a lot of power and your mpg will be much better. The mpg will not be like on gasoline but considering that you have increased the table with 35%, the mpg won?t go down with 25-30% (like expected if you only modify the fuel maps) if the spark table is set up right. The decrease in mpg will most likely then be in the 10-20% range.

You can also run a proportionally leaner mixture (a higher lambda) than on gasoline and thereby also save some fuel and increase your mpg.
 
Yeah, I expected to do a lot of tweaking and tuning when I ever got my hands on the E85, the +35% was just a rough first cut, intended to make the car driveable on its first tank.

With the same switch I swap fuel tables, AFR targets, and ignition tables. So I can tweak Fuel3, AFR3, and Ign2 all to specifically suit the ethanol. And still swap back and forth between gas and E85 with one flip of the switch.
 
Yeah, I expected to do a lot of tweaking and tuning when I ever got my hands on the E85, the +35% was just a rough first cut, intended to make the car driveable on its first tank.

With the same switch I swap fuel tables, AFR targets, and ignition tables. So I can tweak Fuel3, AFR3, and Ign2 all to specifically suit the ethanol. And still swap back and forth between gas and E85 with one flip of the switch.
Nice :-D
 
C320 2001 benz

Hello
I would like to ask how and what is the best possible conversion for my car mercedes c320 2001.I heared that 2003 models are e85 compatible.mine is 2001.
Thank you in advance and highly appreciated!
 
Hello
I would like to ask how and what is the best possible conversion for my car mercedes c320 2001.I heared that 2003 models are e85 compatible.mine is 2001.
Thank you in advance and highly appreciated!
What kind of engine does it have? Has anything been done to it?

The easiest thing to do, is to get injectors that are 30-45% larger than stock. In most cases the adaptation to E85 is handled by the ECU alone if you do it this way, and you don?t have to worry about anything else.
 
What kind of engine does it have? Has anything been done to it?

The easiest thing to do, is to get injectors that are 30-45% larger than stock. In most cases the adaptation to E85 is handled by the ECU alone if you do it this way, and you don?t have to worry about anything else.

thank you for reply.The engine is 3.2L v6 and nothing has been changed eversince i bought the car.the ecu is still original.no modification/s.
 
thank you for reply.The engine is 3.2L v6 and nothing has been changed eversince i bought the car.the ecu is still original.no modification/s.
The easiest thing would be to get bigger injectors. It will always work.

Can you tell me the part number of the injectors? Do you know how much they flow?
 
Any reason you can't run straight ethanol (like pure grain alcohol by the bottle ;) ) in a Volvo? Is it just a matter of larger injectors, just like E85?

Does that create any larger problems for fuel lines, pumps, etc?

Would the chips for LH 2.2 work well for E100?

Aaron
 
Any reason you can't run straight ethanol (like pure grain alcohol by the bottle ;) ) in a Volvo? Is it just a matter of larger injectors, just like E85?

Does that create any larger problems for fuel lines, pumps, etc?

Would the chips for LH 2.2 work well for E100?

Aaron
You can run E100 instead of E85. It is not a problem. You only need a little bit larger injectors than the 30-45% required for E85.

One problem I can think of, is if the intake temperature drops below 15*C. Then it can get a little bit hard to start the car with E100...

It can be resolved by an extreme amount of enrichment and more fuel at cranking.
 
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I will look at it later during the day.

GB REMANUFACTURING Part # 85212183
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # FJ603
ACDELCO Part # 2172940 {#19146090}
INJECTOR,M/PORT FUEL
BOSCH Part # 0280155742 {Injection Valve #280155742}

here are some of the injectors part number offered for both c320 3.2L 2001 until 2005

Thanks!
 
GB REMANUFACTURING Part # 85212183
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # FJ603
ACDELCO Part # 2172940 {#19146090}
INJECTOR,M/PORT FUEL
BOSCH Part # 0280155742 {Injection Valve #280155742}

here are some of the injectors part number offered for both c320 3.2L 2001 until 2005

Thanks!
Bosch p/n 0280155742 has a listed flow of 15.8lb/hr (166cc/min) at 43.5psi (3bar) fuel pressure. In that case you would need injectors that will flow 22.4lb/hr (235cc/min). The flow number doesn?t have to be exactly dead on.
 
Bosch p/n 0280155742 has a listed flow of 15.8lb/hr (166cc/min) at 43.5psi (3bar) fuel pressure. In that case you would need injectors that will flow 22.4lb/hr (235cc/min). The flow number doesn?t have to be exactly dead on.

Thank you!the problem is everytime I check the fuel injector for e85 compatible 2003 c320 the site will tell me they dont have it.do you know the part number of bosch with a higher flow rate?one seller told me this:

Dear Suzette - The injectors are the OEM C320 parts.

No different injectors for E85.

Our set price is $279.50 plus $60 refundable core deposit.

Bruce Holt,
Owner-Fiveomotorsport

I dont know why he say there is no different injector for e85.yesterday i tried to run the car with 2 gallons of e85 with 93 octance gasoline.i just noticed the engine run cooler at around 80centigrade almost all the time unlike before its always on 90centigrade.is it ok if i always add a gallon or two everytime i put gas on my car?will it damage the engine?
thanks!
 
Thank you!the problem is everytime I check the fuel injector for e85 compatible 2003 c320 the site will tell me they dont have it.do you know the part number of bosch with a higher flow rate?one seller told me this:

Dear Suzette - The injectors are the OEM C320 parts.

No different injectors for E85.

Our set price is $279.50 plus $60 refundable core deposit.

Bruce Holt,
Owner-Fiveomotorsport

I dont know why he say there is no different injector for e85.yesterday i tried to run the car with 2 gallons of e85 with 93 octance gasoline.i just noticed the engine run cooler at around 80centigrade almost all the time unlike before its always on 90centigrade.is it ok if i always add a gallon or two everytime i put gas on my car?will it damage the engine?
thanks!
The engine will feel fine even with a lot of E85 blended in actually. It is different from car to car how much they are capable of. 50/50 usually works good on most cars.

When he said that they use the same size injectors for E85, it is probably true. The E85 compatible C230 probably has a different ECU software, if there ever was an E85 version of the C230...? I didn?t know that there was such a thing.

But I can look for larger injectors that might be suitable for you. Other members reading this will probably also chime in with suggestions.
 
The engine will feel fine even with a lot of E85 blended in actually. It is different from car to car how much they are capable of. 50/50 usually works good on most cars.

When he said that they use the same size injectors for E85, it is probably true. The E85 compatible C230 probably has a different ECU software, if there ever was an E85 version of the C230...? I didn?t know that there was such a thing.

But I can look for larger injectors that might be suitable for you. Other members reading this will probably also chime in with suggestions.

Thank you for your help!
I'm looking forward for the part number.Hope my Car(Mercedes C320) can deal with 50/50 mixture for now.

How much octane will it increase if I put 91 octane gasoline with E85?Is there a computation for that?
 
There's probably a precise calculation, but in general terms just assume you are mixing 91 octane fuel with 105 octane fuel, and just weight the numbers by the relative amounts and average. IN any case, the added octane rating is of no importance unless you are boosting the bejesus out of the car and *need* octane higher than 91.

And adding E85 to the gas shouldn't harm the motor as long as the CEL doesn't come on. As you add E85, you gradually increase the amount of fuel that needs to be injected with each cylinder stroke. The computer will sense this via the oxygen sensor in the exhaust and automatically increase the injection amount as part of its normal feedback operation. The computer has a certain amount of leeway to increase (or decrease) the 'normal' injection amounts to acheive a proper oxygen sensor reading. If it finds it needs to go beyond that limit (whatever it is) it will assume something is mechanically wrong and light up the CEL (check engine light). At that point, the computer might stop trying to adjust the fuel mixture, and you could be in danger of going lean and causing some damage to the motor if driven hard. But as long as the CEL doesn't go on, the computer is adjusting the fuel mixture appropriately and it won't see any problem.

Putting bigger injectors on is just a way to mechanically set the system to inject more fuel, so the computer will be in the middle of its normal operating range when E85 is in the tank. The issue with that is that if you fill it up with gasoline then the computer will be running the motor too rich, and it will have to try and adjust the injection amounts down and it might set off a CEL.

True flex fuel vehicles just have a small sensor in the fuel system that can detect the relative percentage of ethanol in the fuel and the computer then automatically changes its expected injection amounts to suit. So it won't set of a CEl unless something actually does go wrong with either the injection system or the oxygen sensor.
 
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