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Old 02-16-2014, 12:59 AM   #1
MrBill
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DA FUK?

Seriously.

Okay so this is MikeP's brown 244, named morley. I got this thing last summer/fall from mikep to megasquirt.

It's megasquirted. And it runs... sort of.

It's MS1 with 2.2 board. Running 029y4 firmware I believe, freshly flashed. Ignition trigger is via a 2.2 distributor. Coil is fired via BIP373 Dwell is 6.0 cranking, 3.0(i think) running. 1.0(i think) coil discharge time.

So beepee and I got it to run this evening. BUT it will only run if I have the injections set at 4 injections/cycle. Also, the crank trigger stuff seems ****ed up. Timing is 15 degrees if I set the trigger angle at 10 or 60 or 80. Why? Also, it only idles. If I rev it, it starts to rev and the timing goes SUPER retarded, like from 15degrees BTDC to 25 AFTER tdc. That's from idle of ~800rpm and it won't rev over 1500-2000. If I set it to static timing, it still just goes way retarded.

What have I done wrong?
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:46 AM   #2
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B21f with 530 head/B230 intake manifold, 19lbs, triggering off of the same distributor but firing off of a 139 module and one of the LED's (so you would need to change that in outputs to your setup). Also, the req fuel is way to high and therefore has tiny VE values -- but ignore that for now. MS1 v2.2 running same code as you. Car started and drove great, even took a 500mile roadtrip with it (where I met you!)

Knowing that my tune was bueno, compare it to yours and see if anything jumps out at you. Or just load it up and change the needed outputs and see if that solves the problem. Sorry, I can't be of more help but I am a newb when it comes to solving MS problems.


Edit: reading your problems again, maybe a bad distributor? Do you have another to swap on and see if that fixes things? I know that when I first tried to MS a volvo I used an 003 distributor and that didn't work but swapping on an 004 solved the issues
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File Type: msq Before Turbo and Injector Swap.msq (40.5 KB, 14 views)
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:12 AM   #3
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Did you mod this ECU? What did you change? How did you configure it?
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by J_Jones View Post
B21f with 530 head/B230 intake manifold, 19lbs, triggering off of the same distributor but firing off of a 139 module and one of the LED's (so you would need to change that in outputs to your setup). Also, the req fuel is way to high and therefore has tiny VE values -- but ignore that for now. MS1 v2.2 running same code as you. Car started and drove great, even took a 500mile roadtrip with it (where I met you!)

Knowing that my tune was bueno, compare it to yours and see if anything jumps out at you. Or just load it up and change the needed outputs and see if that solves the problem. Sorry, I can't be of more help but I am a newb when it comes to solving MS problems.


Edit: reading your problems again, maybe a bad distributor? Do you have another to swap on and see if that fixes things? I know that when I first tried to MS a volvo I used an 003 distributor and that didn't work but swapping on an 004 solved the issues
Well I pulled the distributor from a wrecked LH 2.2 junkyard car. Is there more than one kind of 2.2 distributor? I thought I just couldn't use the early (LH 2.0?) hall dizzies.

I see no [significant] changes from your MSQ to mine. I'll go and look harder.
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Did you mod this ECU? What did you change? How did you configure it?
Here ya go:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=282523

Kenny built it years ago. Modifications are listed in that thread. It's the 'OG' Kenny Howard megasquirt method.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:16 PM   #5
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Well I pulled the distributor from a wrecked LH 2.2 junkyard car. Is there more than one kind of 2.2 distributor? I thought I just couldn't use the early (LH 2.0?) hall dizzies.
Yeah, something about the hall sensor differences but I think that the LH2.0 one is the one that won't work as you said. I would think that any distributor from a LH2.2 car would be fine, though your problems still make me suspect the distributor and a bad signal to MS.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:41 PM   #6
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Okay I went out, confirmed 004 dizzy. Loaded your MSQ, changed outputs, same issue. Cool.

Here's a quick video of the timing issue. You can see the timing mark go from 15btdc past 0
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:13 PM   #7
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does the pulse width change as well? on the phone now but there is a thread I had going when I swapped in the bip's on the 140. had to add a filter cap on the coil triggers to keep rpm spikes down. not sure if its related but worth at least checking.
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:43 PM   #8
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If you're not using an external module, you should be running your Spark Output inverted. What is yours set at?
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:46 PM   #9
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Has the rubber on the pulley separated? That will cause all sorts of weird mark changes
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:42 PM   #10
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Has the rubber on the pulley separated? That will cause all sorts of weird mark changes
b23. No rubber

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If you're not using an external module, you should be running your Spark Output inverted. What is yours set at?
spark with the bip373 is set at inverted.
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does the pulse width change as well? on the phone now but there is a thread I had going when I swapped in the bip's on the 140. had to add a filter cap on the coil triggers to keep rpm spikes down. not sure if its related but worth at least checking.
unknown.

I've attached the current MSQ
CURRENTBROWN.msq
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:54 PM   #11
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triggering off the rising edge or falling edge? I'll open the msq and look , but off the top of my head, triggering off the wrong edge can do strange things (though usuaully not retarding timing), incorrectly defining the spark output can cause something like this, car will run but won'r run right, hardware latency? usually not with a basic trigger return setup though.

you say you've swapped a different distributor in there?

ooh hey how is the trigger input setup on the board? if you get that wrong, it will do all sorts of random ass ****.

also, any typos and bad suggestions are due to the yuengling
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:24 PM   #12
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I haven't swapped another distributor, I just took out the 003 and put in the 004 while I was initially wiring the car.

I don't think it gave me rising/fall edge options. I think that's MS2 stuff?

Trigger stuff was done per your diagram here:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=282523

I'll take a look at the board tomorrow. Beepee has done some of the wiring to the board and I usually hear 'this is good enough' while he's working.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:23 AM   #13
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hm well that oughta be good if that's how it's done.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:24 AM   #14
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it could be a bad distributor, the reman units I used to get from autozone would do that sort of thing after a few months when I was still running lh 2.2
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:59 PM   #15
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I can send you an msq from a car I got running last night. 2.2 box, ms1 triggering a bip off of spark output a. lh 2.2 distributor, resistor on pin 24, hall return on pin 25. All the coldstart/cranking/fuel table stuff is wonky because my objective was to get it to start and idle..everything else is up to the owner.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:50 PM   #16
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I have a good 2.2 distributor in Wilbur I'll take tomorrow if it's warm enough.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:15 PM   #17
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Okay so I did some looking today.

I replaced beepee's 22 awg wire with some ~18 awg for the BIP373. Center pin of bip373 is wired to the ground pins around 10-12. Right pin is going to whatever spare pin I used. 24 maybe.
The low-current trigger wire (the left leg of the BIP373) is wired to the right leg of R25. There's a resistor in there too, like there's supposed to to be driven by the logic output IIRC.

Still ran the same, so at least I can't blame beepee at the moment.

Didn't get a chance to swap distributors. I don't want to cannibalize Wilbur. Maybe a trip to crazy ray's is in order..

Oh I have a 3.0 board with an MS1 chip in it. Maybe I should try that too
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:20 PM   #18
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Someone say crazy rays?
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:30 PM   #19
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*junkard team... assemble!*
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:37 PM   #20
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If you go, let me know. I'll head up, I need some random crap from the yard.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:27 AM   #21
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swap distro.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:08 PM   #22
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I can send you an msq from a car I got running last night. 2.2 box, ms1 triggering a bip off of spark output a. lh 2.2 distributor, resistor on pin 24, hall return on pin 25. All the coldstart/cranking/fuel table stuff is wonky because my objective was to get it to start and idle..everything else is up to the owner.
this is my car i belive. and it idles like a boss. but wont rev past 2.5k rpm without sounding like anti lag on a rally car.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:17 AM   #23
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Got a distributor from beepee yesterday. Will swap this evening.

So I was *thinking* about this yesterday. I think there's something wrong with something (durr). While the distributor may (and I hope it does) fix it, I can't help but assume it won't fix it.

There has to be something related to the fact that 4 squirts makes the car run perfectly. I need to get an o-scope home but is it possible the spark output is somehow actually an injector output? It would explain why trigger angle adjustments do nothing and why it only runs on 4 squirts. The board seems wired correctly but there's obviously something fubar.

Will report back after distributor replacement.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:23 AM   #24
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hm, I lost a post in here. I had one once that was tied to the pulse on the LED, I'd incorrectly defined the spark output, and for whatever reason I could set the trigger angle but then after that the timing did it's own thing regardless of what was on the map. it took a little while to figure that derp out. it doesn't help that there are two possible spark output A's, the top led (that also indicates engine rpm signal i.e. will pulse with every trigger 'event' on a single coil system), and the other one, js10 or whatever.

check that, could be a simple solution. I still haven't opened the msq, so ymmv
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:03 PM   #25
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Okay - so I looked over the MS today vs the internet. It looks 'normal'.

I went out and changed outputs, so fidle was the idle controller and LED14 was squirt. Car runs the same.
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