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16v valve springs

linuxman51 said:
8v valve springs are different. I hear tell things from chevy cross-fit.
Click to expand...


Only some, Chevy V8 installed height isn?t the same, spring ID aint the same, there are however earlier upper and lower retainers that you can fake the springs.
Springs are tho supposed to firt the retainers good, and it ain?t a hot fit.
If you use the millions of Chevy retainers then the taper is wrong.
Also coil bind can be an issue since most Chevy spring are installed at higher installed height.

My rough memory is that later 8v and 16 v were kinda same.

Moot point since there is nice springs in the reasonable range NEEDED.

(with stock cams you?ll accomplish NOTHING with excessive---above 75psi seat pressure)
 
This is information from Vadis on the 16VT head

Valve springs are 26.5mm in diameter
Length (mm) Load (N)
46.6 0
37.0 330-370N
29.5 665-735N

In lbs that would be:
46.6 0
37.0 74-83lbs
29.5 149-165lbs

37mm length is probably closed length and 29.5 open valve? Since lift is roughly 7mm on stock B204FT cams.
Seems more then the ford springs suggested here?
 
as far as i am concerned the ford springs are the end all be all for the 16v head, that's how happy i am with them.

kenny, weren't you using them for your 500+whp pulls?
 
Ok so VS1632 is the Aftermarket PartN?.. Can someone give me the genuine FordN??

I would buy them @ Josh but i need them till saturday and i dont believe the shipping would be that fast from .us to .de ;)
 
500dollar744ti said:
as far as i am concerned the ford springs are the end all be all for the 16v head, that's how happy i am with them.

kenny, weren't you using them for your 500+whp pulls?
Click to expand...

once yes. I have stiffer still springs now. I turned the old setup up to around 7800 with the ford springs and more aggressive than stock cams, something I couldn't even think about doing previously even with the stock cams.
 
Turbosteen said:
This is information from Vadis on the 16VT head

Valve springs are 26.5mm in diameter
Length (mm) Load (N)
46.6 0
37.0 330-370N
29.5 665-735N

In lbs that would be:
46.6 0
37.0 74-83lbs
29.5 149-165lbs
Click to expand...

Bumping this to add some relevant info. I had the opportunity to measure the used stock valve springs and some Sealed Power VS1632 springs over the weekend.

Of note, the VS1632 springs are not a "beehive" spring, they are as straight as can be. They do have a progressive winding to them, and that will reduce the reciprocating mass of the spring IF the tightly would part is mounted near the head.
The Ford 4.6/VS1632 springs do offer more seat pressure, but that's about it. I'm not sure why these are viewed as "THE upgraded spangs mang!"... as the stockers actually are a stiffer spring.

Used 16v springs:
Spring Rate (installed to block): 250lbs/in
Open Height: 43.6mm/1.715in
Installed Height: 37mm/1.456in & 22.7Kgs/50lbs
Coil Bind: 24.4mm/0.960in & 79.5Kgs/175lbs

Sealed Power VS-1632 "Ford 4.6" springs
Spring Rate (installed to block): 220lbs/in
Open Height: 52.6mm/2.070in
Installed Height: 37mm/1.456in & 31.8Kgs/70lbs
Coil Bind: 24.4mm/0.960in & 79.5Kgs/175lbs
 
culberro said:
Bumping this to add some relevant info. I had the opportunity to measure the used stock valve springs and some Sealed Power VS1632 springs over the weekend.

Of note, the VS1632 springs are not a "beehive" spring, they are as straight as can be. They do have a progressive winding to them, and that will reduce the reciprocating mass of the spring IF the tightly would part is mounted near the head.
The Ford 4.6/VS1632 springs do offer more seat pressure, but that's about it. I'm not sure why these are viewed as "THE upgraded spangs mang!"... as the stockers actually are a stiffer spring.

Used 16v springs:
Spring Rate (installed to block): 250lbs/in
Open Height: 43.6mm/1.715in
Installed Height: 37mm/1.456in & 22.7Kgs/50lbs
Coil Bind: 24.4mm/0.960in & 79.5Kgs/175lbs

Sealed Power VS-1632 "Ford 4.6" springs
Spring Rate (installed to block): 220lbs/in
Open Height: 52.6mm/2.070in
Installed Height: 37mm/1.456in & 31.8Kgs/70lbs
Coil Bind: 24.4mm/0.960in & 79.5Kgs/175lbs
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this - I was just about to order a heap of these things and I'm having second thoughts now.

Do you plan to use the Vs1632, the old springs, or an alternative?
 
Meh.. i would find it quite cool from the TB shop distributors to make a statement to this..

The Springs are really offered as "the one part which cures all".. time to verify this by the people who make money out of it.. ;)
 
I've never measured any spring pressures by hand. All I have is some anecdotal evidence:
- I'm not a big burly strong guy, but I could fairly easily press a stock valve spring open, just shove on the top and it would open 1/4 inch or so. With the Ford springs installed, this felt much harder to do. Uncalibrated 'thumb meter'.
- With the stock springs I had 3 or 4 occurrences of what I thought were overpumped lifters. On a cold engine, rev it up a bit too much (6500 rpms or so? yeah, not a good idea in any case) and the engine would pick up a persistent miss that would linger for 30 seconds or so. This hasn't happened since putting the Ford springs on.
 
And my memory is a bit foggy on the fine details, but I seem to recall one end of the springs being smaller than the other, so it mattered which way they were installed. Not straight as can be as the springs above are described.

Maybe I got something different?
 
I have no dog in this fight, as i neither have a 16v head, nor have i ever used the Ford springs, but is the answer to the question "why are the Ford springs considered an upgrade" not already answered in the statistics posted above? Spring rate alone is not the most important factor here.

If the stock spring gives a force of 50 lbs at installed height, and if the spring rate is 250 lbs/in, and if we would have 0.3937 in of valve lift (10mm), then force at maximum lift is 148 lbs.

If the Ford spring gives a force of 70 lbs at installed height, and if the rate is 220 lbs/in, then at the same maximum lift it has a force of 157 lbs.

The Ford spring has a higher force throughout the valve operation, thus more control, thus the possibility to use higher engine rpm.

Or is it a question of the upgrade not providing enough force either? I take it that those who have used these, have found that they do in fact enable higher engine rpm with controlled valve events, where the stock ones apparently do not.

Edit: if the spring is a progressive one, then a simple spring rate of X lbs/in does not tell the whole story either. The force is then not a linear function of compression, but rather a curve.
 
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