Injector swap

1988 Volvo 244 GL NA AW70. I had about 85,000 miles on the original injectors when I sent them to Witchhunter to be cleaned. While they were gone, I used a set of yellow tops that I bought on eBay. They worked well, but I reinstalled the original injectors when they were returned. The engine pulled harder with the cleaned injectors, but still had a slightly rough idle. I saw these when doing a Google injector search
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/volvo/780/
I ordered them yesterday afternoon, they arrived this morning. USPS Priority mail really came through. Idle is smoother and the engine pulls harder. Still too early to know how well they will work as the ECU needs a little more time. I have a 3,000 mile road trip coming up. That will be the best test. I usually get about 25mpg on the highway, but am hoping for a little improvement with these injectors.

which model did you buy? There are a good amount of them there, and different styles.

Fuel Injector: Bosch 0280156013/Swedish

From their website...

READ THIS:
Your Volvo was equipped with Bosch fuel injectors - 0280150725, 0280150734, 0280150749, 0280150762
But this updated genuine Bosch set as an exact replacement. They offer the older engines a refined fuel spray pattern for more efficient fuel economy.
Note: Not everyone will experience more miles per gallon - depends on indiviual driving style and driving conditions.

This Design III, Bosch Fuel Injector is a FIVEOMOTORSPORT exclusive.
0280156013 "Red Devils"
Use this injector to upgrade your stock fuel system with a Generation III technology.
Fits same as stock injector set.
Use with stock ECU on a stock or slightly modified engine, i.e. "bolt-ons" exhaust, air intake, etc..

Very nice... So it is only 42.00 for a set of them? That is a really good deal if they work out for you... keep us posted.

Just back. I took this same trip in July. I was never over 25mpg and often it was a mile or two less. This trip, the mpg was a little better. The low was 25mpg and I was often in the mid 27s. However, there were enough variables so that I can’t say with certainty that the injectors were responsible for the increase. The temperature was about 30 degrees cooler and whenever I could, I bought non-ethanol fuel.
The idle remains better than with my stock injectors and it feels as if it pulls a little harder from low rpms. I am happy that I bought them, but don’t expect a dramatic increase in mileage.

Is that really a set of injectors for $42? Not $42 each x four?

$42.00 each. As I wrote earlier, mileage may have improved a bit, idle and seat of the pants acceleration from low RPMs were certainly improved. This is compared to fairly low mileage original injectors that were recently cleaned by Witchhunter. If you need to replace your stock NA injectors at a price that is not too much higher than sending yours out to be cleaned, this might be a good choice. Newer technology and made by Bosch at a price that is much lower than most new injectors.

Bump. How about a 5 month update? My 1991 didn't pass emissions this last time around and I am contemplating some new injectors for a little better atomizing at idle with the bigger cam/valves, etc..

6,000 miles later, the injectors are still working well. Mileage dropped for a while, then returned to normal when I replaced what was likely a failing AMM. Idle continues to be better than with the original cleaned fuel injectors. I would buy them again. Can make someone a very good deal on my original injectors I passed emissions without too much room in 2012; aged out for 2013.

I'm looking at different injectors for my 91 245 LH 3.1 car, and looked into the later style plate type, or EV6 type, which is what you have there in the 0280 0156 013's.
Those injectors flow 16 lb hr and slightly less than the xx 209's that came in your car.
Apparently the EV6 injectors have a faster response time than the yellow tops or the xxx 209's old pintle EV1 style, so running smaller injectors of the EV6 type is a good idea, so they work at a higher duty cycle.
There's a thread on this here somewhere. Capt Blotto I think.

Anyway, I looked for suitable replacements for the yellow tops and was reccomended using the orange top 850/960 n/a EV6 injectors. These flow 19 lb/hr and will work well as replacements for the 20.75 lb/hr yellow tops (850's used the yellow tops also, up until '95 when LH 3.2 went to ME 4.3)

I got a set of the 0280 155 746 from an 850 N/A at the P&P last week and am going to try them.

Also to the OP, a rough idle isn't necessarilly going to be the injector fault on your 88 240, when you change the injector size, like the higher flow 762 yellow tops (which are a direct swap for the stock 209's) the LH 2.2 AMM needs to be adjusted to accomodate the change and gives a better idle. Without doing this adjustment, all bets are off, and the lower flowing 013's just fit where the car was in terms of tune. You can use the higher flowing 850/960 injectors and get a better match to the stock injectors, and will still see the benefit of the more efficient plate style EV6 injectors.

vvpete said:

Also to the OP, a rough idle isn't necessarilly going to be the injector fault on your 88 240, when you change the injector size, like the higher flow 762 yellow tops (which are a direct swap for the stock 209's) the LH 2.2 AMM needs to be adjusted to accomodate the change and gives a better idle. Without doing this adjustment, all bets are off, and the lower flowing 013's just fit where the car was in terms of tune. You can use the higher flowing 850/960 injectors and get a better match to the stock injectors, and will still see the benefit of the more efficient plate style EV6 injectors.

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Great information...Thanks. FYI, I always trim the AMM whenever I make an injector change, clean the throttle body or do anything that might change fuel or air flow. I use the Volvo tool to do so, then turn the pot about 1 turn rich. That is where my exhaust gas analyzer likes it.

TWD said:

Great information...Thanks. FYI, I always trim the AMM whenever I make an injector change, clean the throttle body or do anything that might change fuel or air flow. I use the Volvo tool to do so, then turn the pot about 1 turn rich. That is where my exhaust gas analyzer likes it.

Click to expand...

My hat is off to you sir! An EGA, I'm impressed, probably the first TB'er to admitt using one for this application that I've heard of. The right way to do it.

All you K-Jet users take note. i.e "Don't mess with that screw!"

Pete, according to the link where the injectors were purchased, they are higher flowing than all factory NA redblock injectors. Where did you get your info?

I found a source for these from a website called 'Motor Man' selling these and he said they flow 16/lb hr when used in a EV1 situation. He reccomended the 850/960 injectors instead. I have a 4 bar FPR, and they will flow at 23 lb hr max, but with LH 2.4/3.1 probably won't be utilized above 19-20 lb/hr due to intake and ECU limitations. He said you want to run EV6 injectors about 20% less than EV1 due to teh different time constant, and running them at ~90% Duty cycle.

The data on the 0 280 156 013's conflicts with Stan Weiss table, as well as a Bosch Injector Excel Spreadsheet I found. In my notes I had 22.75 lb/hr written down for them but changed to 16/lb hr after I looked into it more.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
and post #39:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=273961&highlight=vvpete

Either way the 850/960 injectors are a drop-in FWIW. Was going to buy them but when the P&P is full of them for $5 each............

Another note to the OP, thes EV6 like running at higher fuel pressures, so going with at least a 3 bar FPR would be good.

Duplicate post

vvpete said:

Another note to the OP, thes EV6 like running at higher fuel pressures, so going with at least a 3 bar FPR would be good.

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I have a spare 3.0 bar. Thanks for the thought. I will exchange it for the 2.5 bar that is now on it to see if I can feel a difference. The car runs very well now and consistently gets 20+mpg around town with 25 to 26 on the highway. Every once in a while, mileage drops some. When that happens, I assume that I received a tankful that has more ethanol than usual. I need to buy the ethanol test kit that TrickMick mentioned just to check. When I travel out west, the pumps often give you the choice of non-ethanol fuel; not so in Atlanta.

Just discovered a critical difference between the 850/960 Bosch EV6 injectors and the 0 280 156 013 Bosch EV6 injectors.

All the N/A redblock Bosch injectors, Yellow tops, White top 16v, black 209's for LH 2.1/.2 and 2.4/3.1/.2 are 15.9 ohms, including the 0 280 155 746 850/960 injectors.

The Bosch 0 280 1560 013 EV6 are 12 ohms, and are not even close to being a direct fit.

I would think the ECU may struggle to keep fuel trim correctly with over-undershoot when the ECU pulses at a different voltage than these injectors require. That website is giving false information.

This is probably why these injectors don't flow as much in the real world when used on a older EV1 programmed ECU.

And to the OP, my 91 245 w/LH 3.1 running 4 bar FPR, White tops from a 16V, performance VX cam gets 25 mpg city, 31 highway on 88 oct E10 consistently, and hope I can do far better with the 850 injectors.

vvpete said:

Just discovered a critical difference between the 850/960 Bosch EV6 injectors and the 0 280 156 013 Bosch EV6 injectors.

All the N/A redblock Bosch injectors, Yellow tops, White top 16v, black 209's for LH 2.1/.2 and 2.4/3.1/.2 are 15.9 ohms, including the 0 280 155 746 850/960 injectors.

The Bosch 0 280 1560 013 EV6 are 12 ohms, and are not even close to being a direct fit.

I would think the ECU may struggle to keep fuel trim correctly with over-undershoot when the ECU pulses at a different voltage than these injectors require. That website is giving false information.

This is probably why these injectors don't flow as much in the real world when used on a older EV1 programmed ECU.

And to the OP, my 91 245 w/LH 3.1 running 4 bar FPR, White tops from a 16V, performance VX cam gets 25 mpg city, 31 highway on 88 oct E10 consistently, and hope I can do far better with the 850 injectors.

Click to expand...

If they aren't even close to being a direct fit, then why does the original poster's car do just fine?

The VX cam is not a performance cam, it is a factory cam that performs slightly better than the worthless US market cam.

Running a 4 bar FPR and 16V injectors means you are attempting to over fuel your engine. Luckily, LH operates in closed loop most of the time and can see that it's overfueled and adjusts fueling down so that the car gets the basically same fueling as it did with the previous injectors. At WOT and high rpm, it likely runs richer than the factory setup which is usually quite a bit too rich.

I just put the 850/960 injectors in my car and it runs noticably smoother, better idle and mid-range, but comapred to the 16v injectors, I lost the top end and quick jump off the throttle, they were much faster response. I could peg the tach in 2nd with a quick blip and now takes a second or two. I drove in mixed driving, lights, city, then a long 2 hr cruise, then went through city driving again and felt how they adapted to LH.

These do run leaner, and have about the same peddle effort and power as the orig yellow tops, cars is smoother, revs quiter, engine temps droped from a usual 9:00 to ~8:45 at an 80 mph cruise through the mountains (uphill) at 6-8000 ft today. The engine is very quiet than it was before. It pulled very well at highway speeds, although lacked the jump the 16v inj had going from 70-90.

The 16v injectors I've been using are old, probably over 250k on them, and at one time they ran smoother, and I have been chasing a cold/cool running rumble, and that seems to have cleared up. I'll be happy when I get the mpg into the 30's again. Car runs great!

About running stoic, I've been running this set-up for 8 yrs now and my emissions are always 0.01 %CO, and 25-30 ppm HC, runs clean, doesn't burn anything, I haven't (needed to) clean the flame trap in the 350k miles, no blow-by, one of the cleanest cars I've owned, and the difference in the injectors is quite noticable and LH 3.1 adapts very well to it, including how you drive it. Thrash it a while and it adapts and will run richer, but for everyday driver, no issues running this way. The higher pressure is also adapted by LH to meter fuel so it's the same, but you have an injector now that can run 50% duty cycle, instead of 60%(3 bar) and if called to 100% at WOT, there's more fuel available. Also, the higher pressures usually give better atomization and a cleaner burn.

The quieter and cooler running engine under extended load are interesting changes that sound nice. I also wonder what the fuel spray pattern is on those injectors, as a lot of the injectors for the white blocks have patterns that aren't a good match for our single intake port/valve, 8V heads(too wide or a split beam, both of which spray more at the walls than the intake valve as preferred). The orange top, 850T injectors do have the correct pattern, however they're still the EV1, pintle style.

Regarding more fuel being available, running too rich does not make more power. Maybe I'll have to try out this LH3.1 thing on my car with a wideband after all. It seems to do something different than LH2.4 in response to how it controls the injectors if what your but dyno perceives to be true is actually true.