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Old 08-02-2016, 02:33 PM   #1
KEITHS2000
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Default M90 spigot shaft bearing

I've looked right through m90 gearbox thread and can't find any reference to the spigot shaft
Do you guys extend the input shaft or not bother with it does it need it ?
I am running a dog dish flywheel

Last edited by KEITHS2000; 08-02-2016 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 08-02-2016, 07:20 PM   #2
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The m90 has/needs no pilot bearing
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:20 AM   #3
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Thanks for that
Something else not to sort out then
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Old 08-03-2016, 04:18 PM   #4
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Up untill recently, you could only install the M90 without a pilot bearing.

Now there's someone making mainshaft adapter for the M90 conversion.

http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=m...ft-adapter-prt
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:12 PM   #5
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I decided to make one today
Jobs a goodness
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:29 AM   #6
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Is there a practical use? Like noisecreduction when using a singlemass flywheel?
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:22 AM   #7
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Also prevents this from happening:
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEITHS2000 View Post
I decided to make one today
Jobs a goodness
Hehe.. I think i need to measure my ttv flywheel and do the same ;)
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Old 08-05-2016, 01:00 PM   #9
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There was 13mm between the end of the shaft and the bell housing
I ended up settling for the width of the standard bearing 10mm in a brass housing mounted in the end of the crank
So the spigot sat 10mm proud of the crank and that sat nicely on the shaft
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:32 PM   #10
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So.. Are the gearbox noises reduced by this?
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:15 PM   #11
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Dunno I haven't got it running yet
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Old 09-26-2016, 03:25 AM   #12
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updates?

Skandix has something like this also in stock now...
http://www.skandix.de/en/documents/i...4d27fb5406&p=2
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:48 AM   #13
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Can you buy just that bearing? I don't see it listed separately.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:19 AM   #14
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Retro Turbo M90 pilot bearing fits in the volvo redblock fllat flywheel perfectly.




Fits in the redblock dog dish!





But DOES NOT FIT in TTV Racing redblock flywheel that takes 850R 240mm clutch... That sucks..

Wait it DOES NOT FIT IN JohnV billet steel flywheel with 240mm saab clutch either.. Double suck.. I'm hoping a twin I know can fix that problem..


Both TTV&JohnV have different idearers of what the volvo redblock inner flywheel hole size should be and it's not the same as volvo's..
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:05 AM   #15
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w00t ?!! they sucky sucky then :D

No.. I emailed skandix already.. they seem adorned about selling it separately.. maybe they fear someone could copy "their" very own M90 Conversion kit :D


But anyway.. it is not a part you cannot fab on your own cause of some machinerymagic must be involvoed ;) I could think of some 7075 and one SKF bearing ;)


Sbabbs.. do you have the specs for the TTV flywheel`? so you could save me getting my m90 out just for measurements

/edit

but i must admit that i like the skandix part better over a free aluminum bearing in a big hole without being tightened??

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Old 09-27-2016, 02:59 AM   #16
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50mm on the hole size of the TTV flywheel. 53mm is JohnV flywheel hole. 54 mm is the size of the stock volvo flywheel hole.

11mm thick from where it bolts onto the crankshaft for TTV. I should measure the stock volvo dogdish see if that's the same as skandix one is made for that.

Maybe I can fix this problem with the retroturbo bearing with my belt sander? It does go into the crank also so not sure why it would need to be perfect into the flywheel hole. Just needs to fit through it. I'm thinking a guy I know with a lathe perhaps can fix it for me.

Other problem with skandix one is no photo of the backside. How does the bearing stay in there? It might have 54mm lip? Who knows? I'd buy one right now if I could. They won't sell just the bearing thingy?

Last edited by sbabbs; 09-27-2016 at 03:18 AM..
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
50mm on the hole size of the TTV flywheel. 53mm is JohnV flywheel hole. 54 mm is the size of the stock volvo flywheel hole.

11mm thick from where it bolts onto the crankshaft for TTV. I should measure the stock volvo dogdish see if that's the same.

Maybe I can fix this problem with my belt sander?

Other problem with skandix one is no photo of the backside. How does the bearing stay in there? It might have 54mm lip? Who knows?
Hi, on things like this and snug fits i wouldnt go the TB ´way.. ;) go to a shop with a lathe and tell them to turn something off.

I would bet theres only a small (1-2mm) lip to center the skandix bearing.. the rest is done via the flywheelbolts.
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:28 AM   #18
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The retroturbo one sits out 17mm from the end of the crankshaft. Yeah if there is only 1 or 2 mm lip to center the skandix in what? The flywheel hole? Then it won't work with TTV flywheel unless you belt sand it, ha.

I will look at that flexplate little plate thing that goes with the flexplate looks like maybe that could be used like skandix one..

Last edited by sbabbs; 09-27-2016 at 03:40 AM..
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Old 09-27-2016, 04:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
The retroturbo one sits out 17mm from the end of the crankshaft. Yeah if there is only 1 or 2 mm lip to center the skandix in what? The flywheel hole? Then it won't work with TTV flywheel unless you belt sand it, ha.

I will look at that flexplate little plate thing that goes with the flexplate looks like maybe that could be used like skandix one..
aaaahh ! i know what you're talking about ! awesome idea! i will have a look also
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:26 AM   #20
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Does the M90 need support for the mainshaft?

When the pressure plate holds the clutch disc tight between the PP surface and the flywheel the disc supports the mainshaft. In other words - when you put power through the transmission the mainshaft is not just hanging freely in mid-air. It is supported by the clutch disc and by the mainshaft bearings.

Why then do other transmission, like the M46, have a pilot bearing? The way the M90 transmission is built is fundamentally different. Unlike a traditional transmission with a two-part mainshaft and a layshaft, the M90 has a centered mainshaft and two layshafts. The M46 input shaft is supported at the front end of the transmission and at the very end-tip of the mainshaft - by the pilot bearing. The input shaft is not supported at the back-end of the transmission, but rather the mainshaft is "split" right after the input shaft goes in the transmission. Here the power is transmitted to the layshaft right at the beginning of the mainshaft. If you had no pilot bearing, the input shaft would wobble when you disengage the clutch.

The difference with the M90 is that in the M90 the mainshaft is supported right at the front of the transmission and also at the back of the transmission - the input shaft is "split" at the back - not at the front.

This means that as you disengage the clutch the mainshaft will not wobble. At least not as much as in a traditional transmission.

So does a M90 need a pilot bearing? Nope. I never used one and had no problems
Is a pilot bearing a good idea? As long as the bearing line is straight - why not. At least it should not do any harm.

Is it a good idea to have a bearing carrier that is centered only by the bolt holes? Not necessarily. I do not know how the Scandix bearing carrier is centered. If your bearing carrier puts the pilot bearing off-center from the bearing line you are not improving the setup - you are making it worse. Way worse. It could be though that the Scandix one centers by some other means than the bolt holes.

The Skandix solution, with a separate bearing carrier, is not always usable - in some clutch combinations there will not be enough room for the bolt heads. They would hit the clutch disc's center section. That whole kit seems to be thought out to work as a kit though, so there should then be enough room for bolts if those parts are used. The Retro Turbo one should not have this problem in any case.
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner View Post

Is it a good idea to have a bearing carrier that is centered only by the bolt holes? Not necessarily. I do not know how the Scandix bearing carries is centered. If your bearing carrier puts the pilot bearing off-center from the bearing line you are not improving the setup - you are making it worse. Way worse. It could be though that the Scandix one centers by some other means than the bolt holes.
+1 to that!
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:29 PM   #22
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When I get off of my lazy arse I have a TTV flywheel and 850R clutch to get out of my old (now parts) car, and had been looking at this. Good to know it won't work and not to waste my time and money! :-)
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:11 PM   #23
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A quick little lathe work and it will. That's my plan with the retroturbo one. Other option email retro and tell him you need one for TTV flywheel that is 50mm instead of the 54 stock size. He can probably have them made for that.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:09 AM   #24
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If you have a lathe theres no need to call Piotr ;)

/edit

I believe the Skandix one has a small lip on the back for centering in the flywheels middlehole.. and the flywheelbolts itself are just fixing it.. like the dowel pins in camshafts... you know ;) just aligning.. rest is done via tightening.. It's selfklart that if you bear something in a line with 3 points, those points must be in a straight line.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:26 AM   #25
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@Wagner: Just a question ..

When you change a gear in high rpms, given that the disc is not balanced, and given the centrifugal forces on both the disc and spigot shaft are huge, when the clutch is released, can't the disc be clamped at a slightly wrong position, so that the spigot shaft is bent in one direction, if the centering bearing is not present ? And then if you get on the gas on an engine that has 550-600 NM, won't it chop the spigot shaft at some point ?
I assume that Fisherman's picture is a result of something like this.. isn't it ?

I am talking about mm's.. not a huge movement.
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