T5 swap, all you need to know

Andy that wasn't meant at you, great info.

Kenny, what do you think would be cheaper to upgrade? A ford T5 that came in god knows how many cars or anything that came in a Bimmer.

I beat the living shit out of mine, 6k clutch drops, power shifts through all 5 gears and I haven't heard a complaint out of it.

Green Death said:

Kenny,
He mentioned they are 230-260 I think.

I'm wondering what the real story is on the T5. Are they just going to become the new m46? Can be be beefed or is it the same thing with the case deformation? I'm going to have to put something behind my new motor but I'm not interested in needing a new tranny every few months.

I'm guessing the getrag is tougher? This is the toughest choice of my whole project right now.

Click to expand...

yea it was late, i skimmed over that part. If thats true then theres little point in my swapping that in as i'm already making 30 ft/lbs more than what they're rated at. The flip side to this is that ive heard tell of 400hp zcars rolling on the stock tranny, and thats gonna hafta be making big torque numbers (inline 6, 2.8L). i think i'll be calling around on this, i miss the manual and i dont really believe that this transmission is going to be as weak as an m46. I'll certainly ask first in the z circles tho, find out what they do

I think you're right that they can take more than they are rated for. the guy at this site put over 400lb-ft to the dyno though a stock NWC T5:

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme/280zxt/page19.html

I have no doubt that the WC is a better trans, but the ratios are attractive on the Z. I think the main thing that would keep me away from using one of these is I think you would have to take it apart to put in a different input shaft, and at that point, you might as well be customizing ratios on a camaro T5 WC. If anyone can find out for sure what the input shaft length is on these, that would help, I just have a claim from some guy's page that they are totally different than v8 T5s.

Does anybody know what the stock rearend ratio on a 940T with an M90 was? It might be 3.54, but I really don't know for sure.

On the camaro front, I have been unable to find out whether v8 3rdgen f-body T5s and 3rd and 4th gen v6 f-body t5s have the same input shafts, or not, I would like to know, but all I know is that the input shaft length on the 1996 v6 T5 is good, although the ratios kind of suck, with a low first and high fifth.

My goal here is to find a T5 (preferably WC) with decent ratios that will drop into a 7/9 with the shifter in a nice place, even if a tricked-out crossmember is required. I'm looking for a 1st comparable to the m90 setup (~3.50), and a top gear around .80, but of course if both ratios were higher gears you might be ok because you could change the rearend ratio.

here are some sources for T5 ratios:
http://media.gmcanada.com/division/canada/english/products/chevrolet/archives/1996Camaro.html
(at the bottom)

This info (v6 5-spd) is for all 96-02.

here are some ratios for 89-92:
http://www.thirdgenresource.com/transmissions_information/

So I'm missing 93-95, and if there were any camaro WC T5 before 89.

Alternatively, you could build a hybrid trans, using a Mustang center section and camaro tailhousing. if you got a camaro WC from a v6, one of them has a .76 fifth, so you could drop that output shaft and 5th into a mustang trans (ditching the .63), with the longer tailhousing. I doubt this would be much cheaper than rebuilding the whole trans, so I'd probably do that. 'course you'd have to buy 2 trannys, but they would be junkyard T5s.

Andy

Question about how far in does the tailshaft flange go.....

Ok... I bought a new spicer tailshaft flange and it came today. Now I'm wondering how far the flange needs to be inserted into the tailshaft. I'll need to know to set up my driveshaft length. Have a look at the attached pics... you'll see a slight step on the shaft. Does the flange go in past that step?

Pic #1 flange part way in
Pic #2 flange all the way in
Pic #3 close-up of step on the shaft

Thanks,
Dave B.

Dave, mine is about split between those pictures (probably to about the ridge).

Call a driveshaft shop (the one you want to use) and have them fax you a form with the measurements they need, they'll take care of the rest. (its ussualy tip of output shaft to tip of rear axle/whatever)

yes for auto's its been touched on. but adapter for man? no. only option listed during search was m90 or nothing (too much $$$ can change anything though). with a adapter plate like i posted, fab'd to go from whiteblock block to gm or ford bellhousing, to go to a t5 or other resonable trans? thats why i'm asking in a t5 posting. also there's a big diff between 120+ and 158mph, but if you ever get there (which will be fairly soon, the way you build), upgrade. on the v6 t5 its only rated at 210 ft lbs. for those determined to use the gm t5, you can conv the t/o to hyd easily by using a 84-88 corvette sys., it will solve any clearance issues, and is decent $ wise used.

stick940T said:

yep, from drivetrain.com:

Nissan 280ZX with Turbo 1982-83
Nissan 300ZX with Turbo 1984-86

Click to expand...

Weren't all the turbo 280ZX cars automatics? i could have swore they were. the only 5spd i know are in the N/A models/ I know the 300ZX cars came with 5 speeds but the 280's didnt

They may have been rare, but they existed, both 280zx turbo and 300zx turbo in manual trans.

We talked (probably on the old board) about importing just m90 bellhousings. Found out they are 1 pc, ruled that the only cheap way to do a whiteblock trans is an automatic style adapter.

So i'm curious... its been stated that the input shaft on the Z t5 would have to be changed.. why is this? is it a length issue or a size issue (too big/too small)?

IF you guys need some measurements my buddy has a Z T5 sitting at his house i can go look at anytime i want to (bought 2 cars for $850, blew tail shaft on 1 tranny already).

Kenny (linuxman),

all I have on the input shaft for the Z is from this page:

http://www.geocities.com/zgarage2001/borg.html

the guy says:

[quote:bf19bba0a6]
BTW, I've compared the front input shafts, and I don't see any way to mate this with a Chevy or Ford V8. The input shaft is a different length, has a different pilot diameter, and a different number of splines for the clutch. In other words, nothing will transfer between the two. In addition, you would also need to buy an expensive new V8 bellhousing, so I wouldn't even try. So do yourself a favor and buy the proper T5 if you want to do a V8 conversion [on a 240z].
[/quote:bf19bba0a6]

I have no hard data (measurements would be very nice) but this guy has no reason to make this stuff up. Workaround might be possible, but I have no idea how hard.

I also want to correct something I said before :slap: , which is that the world class t5 in a late camaro v6 has "essentially the same torque spec" as a mustang v8 t5 because they're both WC. This is not true, but it's for a reason that I don't care that much about ...

The real story is that the camaro v6 WC is not as strong, but it's because it has a lower first gear (higher numerically). in fact, the camaro v6 t5s have first gears in the 3.7-4.0 range, which is too low in my opinion, considering their 5th gears are .76 and .73 (I think) respectively.

Until somebody corrects me, I believe that the nicest (with regard to the center console and tunnel) setup for a 7/9 would be a mustang T5 with camaro v6 WC tail housing, output shaft, and 5th gear. this would make a trans with very nicely spaced ratios (adjust final if nec), and the shifter in the right place. it would, however, require a different type of crossmember than a swap with the mustang tailhousing would. The camaro 5th gear should not affect the torque spec.

this site is also very interesting with regard to T5 swaps:

http://garage-scene.home.att.net/t5_install.htm

Sorry to get off the conversation here, but since this is the T5 thread, and I have a small update on it.....

For fitting the Ford T5 into the 700s, the mount is ultra-simple, as is the stick repositioning.
I used a piece of 3/8" thick CR steel bar to move the shifter back 5 inches--drilled four holes, two on each end. Very simple.
For the mount, I dug around the local Kragen's back shelves until I found a transmission mount that I thought I could adapt. Of the three possible mounts I picked out, I decided on Anchor part number 2220. It has a single bolt at the base, with rubber seperating the two bolt holes at the top, and an equivelent angle to our Volvo crossmember (if that makes sense to you ). The only other part I needed was a piece of 6"x4"x1" T6 aluminum (I'm not entirely sure on the 6"x4" measurement, I'm going off a terrible memory here), with four holes drilled. Two of the holes line up with the mount, and the other two line up with the transmission. Perfect installation!!

So I now have the T5 bolted and mounted in my '86 744ti. Ready to go. Just have to find a shifter boot, and clutch fork boot.

pics you tease

Awsome bud!!!

I think the easiest way to make the mount for a 240 work is weld a plate (like I did) but to the bottom of the crossmember, then drill two holes in it and you can use the rubber mount. Should be a piece of cake!

Alright Shane!!!

Shane, you're more than welcome to provide your actual experience as opposed to speculation!

I'm very interested in your shifter extension, looking forward to pictures!

Nice job!!

stick940T said:

well, you might not have to chop the bellhousing:

the -93 mustang T5 that people are using has the shortest of the 3 ford t5 input shaft lengths:

http://www.therangerstation.com/T5ID.htm

So maybe, just maybe one of the other input shafts would work. Just a thought.

Click to expand...

I am half way into the conversion and have trouble deciding which T5 has the best gear ratios. I am putting it into a 740. I will eventually have over 300 RWHP

Boris, I think ratios are kind of a problem.

anything OEM off of a V8 car has too big of a space between 4th and 5th (IMHO).

camaro V6 WC have a pretty low 1st gear, and a fairly high 5th.

Z ratios are nice from a 280ZX (best, I think) or 300ZX, but they are not world class versions, so they ain't as strong.

these ratios are listed on TTC's site http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-5.asp, which I think are nice:

3.35 1.99 1.33 1.00 0.83

but the trans they are listed for is only rated 230lb-ft

you can buy a 3550 with about the same ratios, but then you're talking bucks. The adapter stuff isn't the same either. Also, most of the used 3550s are from mustangs, so they have the super overdrive 5th like the OEM v8 T5s.

these are the reasons why I'm leaning more towards a supra trans lately, like Hal did. I found some dynos of a guy that had a w58 (in a supra) that held 460rwhp for 6 months before breaking. w58 weighs the same as a T5, ~75lb.

But now that I think about it, the mustang SVO has nice ratios, and I think they were WC around 85-86. might be hard to find one, though. The thunderbird turbo coupe one is similar but the first gear is too low.

Good luck!

Was at the JY the other day. Poking my head into various vehicles looking for a shifter boot I came across what looked like a T5 in an Isuzu Rodeo . '92 Isuzu Rodeo with V6, the tranny looked exactly like a T5 with a very short tailhousing. Anyone feel like looking up the HP/torque handling, and the gear ratios for this?

Shane, they did use a T5 in the rodeo, but the torque spec is only 230lb-ft. Ratios are ok, first is on the low side. The shifter is about 50mm forward of where it is on the mustang. details here:

http://www.tremec.com.mx/catalogo/Fichas Tecnicas/Fic-T5e.pdf

interestingly, the application chart shows "semi-remote" applications with the shifter about 100mm further back than a mustang. Could this be somehow useful to us 7/9ers? torque specs and gear ratios are nothing special, but perhaps the housing is? I am guessing this setup is for a commercial truck or something.

Also, I want to add a little more information to a conjecture that I made before.

I postulated about building a "hybrid" T5 using a ford center section and a camaro v6 WC 5th gear and output shaft. I have not done this, but I think it is possible. Specifically, the changing of 5th gear is possible because the T5 has an interchangeable 5th gear. In other transmissions/gears, "half" of the gear may be part of the layshaft casting, and therefore not be changeable. If you don't understand, read the manual transmission article on howstuffworks.com

For example, porsche transmissions like the G50 and 915 allow all gears to be changed separately (iirc), but most transmissions do not have this capability.

For 240s, the best (and proven, though not in a volvo (wouldn't matter)) way to "fix" the high Mustang V8 T5 fifth (if you feel this is a problem) is to go with a Ford Motorsport .80 fifth driven and drive gearset, which is a little under $200 from hanlon motorsports:

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/category.asp?category=transmission

pretty expensive, I guess this wouldn't be worth it for everybody, you'd have to take the trans partially apart as well, of course.