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Old 08-07-2018, 09:53 AM   #1
Tfrasca
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Default Ideal steering ratio, 140

I love the way my 140 drives, but I hate the sloppy steering. I got an email back from EZ Electric Power Steering and they actually make a kit for a 140, AND can do one with an integrated steering ratio quickener (either 2:1 or 1.5:1).

The ratio in the 140 steering box is 17.5:1, so a 1.5 quickener would make it around 12:1. Does anyone know the ratio of a power 240 rack? I'm trying to get a feel for how twitchy it would be. The guy who emailed me said that he thinks it would be too nervous for street driving.

If turns lock to lock is more relatable, my stock 140 is 4.15, and with the quickener, it'd be 2.8.

Thoughts? I'm pretty excited about finally being able to steer this car.
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Old 08-07-2018, 09:58 AM   #2
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Sloppy, or slow?

Those old steering boxes have a slop adjuster on them. Be sure to adjust it with the wheels pointed straight ahead, it loosens up as it's turned off center.

That's, of course, independent of any steering quickener.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:01 AM   #3
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Sloppy, or slow?

Those old steering boxes have a slop adjuster on them. Be sure to adjust it with the wheels pointed straight ahead, it loosens up as it's turned off center.

That's, of course, independent of any steering quickener.
I should have said slow. All the slop is taken out of the box, and it feels good. It just takes a lot of turning to get the car around tight corners. I've been in situations where I can't hand over hand fast enough, and my hand hits my leg mid turn and it's a handful.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:02 AM   #4
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Sloppy, or slow?

Those old steering boxes have a slop adjuster on them. Be sure to check it for the correct static play with the wheels pointed straight ahead, it loosens up as it's turned off center.

That's, of course, independent of any steering quickener.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:02 AM   #5
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240 power steering has 3.3 turns if I recall correctly. It's ok but could be quicker and 2.8 sounds good. Friend has 242 with electric power steering and quick ratio manual rack with around 2.2 turns. Not twitchy at all but has a lack of proper steering feel. Still nice to drive.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:06 AM   #6
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240 power steering has 3.3 turns if I recall correctly. It's ok but could be quicker and 2.8 sounds good. Friend has 242 with electric power steering and quick ratio manual rack with around 2.2 turns. Not twitchy at all but has a lack of proper steering feel. Still nice to drive.
That's could to know, about the 240 rack. I've driven 240s and they're much nicer to drive than my car. It seems like 2.8 turns would be nice.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:06 AM   #7
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2.8 turns sounds pretty nice to me, I think the only thing that could make that too twitchy is how the electric assistance works.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:10 AM   #8
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Just a *little* too tight and you get to try to find a new steering box. Or parts to rebuild the old one.

I was super lazy on my PV. When the bottom seal failed many years ago instead of removing and fixing it properly, I just filled it with grease. The grease doesn't leak out, it's all nice and lubed, 15 years later I'm still pretty satisfied with my lazy fix.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:20 AM   #9
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Just a *little* too tight and you get to try to find a new steering box.


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Or parts to rebuild the old one.
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Old 08-07-2018, 03:00 PM   #10
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Old 08-07-2018, 03:27 PM   #11
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Yeah, this could be good. That EZ steering stuff is not inexpensive, but if the quickener is integrated into the power steering unit, it could be really cool.

They sell a bolt on kit that replaces the whole top portion of the 140 steering column.

The only downside, that Ken alluded to is relying on the stock steering box and its unobtanium gears.
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Old 08-07-2018, 03:57 PM   #12
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As much as I lurv PVs and Amazons and 240s and have owned and driven bazillions of kms in them, once i got a Saab 96 with the slow 2.7 turns I cold never love the Volvos the same way..Then i got an old 68 rack with 2,2 turns stock..Luxury!
2.65 is OK in a good rack, 2,2 is perfectly fine for a street car

1,9 is getting a little fast unless you be driving very fast on twisty roads..My Frod Squierra 4x4 has 1,9 turns PS.. (drool, slather)
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:27 PM   #13
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Hmm, so it uses the stock gearbox? That loses a decent bit of interest for me, since I want to replace it with something that works a little better.

I gotta get on him about it again, but a local is working on possibly fitting either a 240z or pinto rack to his 74. If he can pull it off we might make a run of brackets possibly...
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:23 PM   #14
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Hmm, so it uses the stock gearbox? That loses a decent bit of interest for me, since I want to replace it with something that works a little better.

I gotta get on him about it again, but a local is working on possibly fitting either a 240z or pinto rack to his 74. If he can pull it off we might make a run of brackets possibly...
Screw the Squintoid Rack..4.sumpin + turns lock to lock..spensive and above all too wide c-c for inner socket assemblies.. Amazon and 140s unusually long lower arms means VERY narrow rack c-c or different subframe and lower arms and an easier to source rack...
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:25 PM   #15
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As much as I lurv PVs and Amazons and 240s and have owned and driven bazillions of kms in them, once i got a Saab 96 with the slow 2.7 turns I cold never love the Volvos the same way..Then i got an old 68 rack with 2,2 turns stock..Luxury!
2.65 is OK in a good rack, 2,2 is perfectly fine for a street car

1,9 is getting a little fast unless you be driving very fast on twisty roads..My Frod Squierra 4x4 has 1,9 turns PS.. (drool, slather)
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Hmm, so it uses the stock gearbox? That loses a decent bit of interest for me, since I want to replace it with something that works a little better.

I gotta get on him about it again, but a local is working on possibly fitting either a 240z or pinto rack to his 74. If he can pull it off we might make a run of brackets possibly...
Yeah, I think it'd be best to find a nice manual rack, then use the electric power steering to drive it. But I am wondering why a 2.8 turn rack is inherently better than a 2.8 turn box. It seems that way to me, but I don't know why.

John, do you have any thoughts on rack vs. box?
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Old 08-07-2018, 09:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Tfrasca View Post
Yeah, I think it'd be best to find a nice manual rack, then use the electric power steering to drive it. But I am wondering why a 2.8 turn rack is inherently better than a 2.8 turn box. It seems that way to me, but I don't know why.

John, do you have any thoughts on rack vs. box?

yeah but somehow I rate a special TB naughty word filter so all you'd see is a buncha ****ing *** and ***** and *** *****...

Never like a thing about steering boxes but I've only driven with OEM 4 or 5 turns things..I know that a major reason they were/are used is ease of placement --just bend some stuff up and connect--but never quick enough..In Volvos and old Japanese stuff like 510s and stuff like that it was THE number one weenie-deflator...
Racks are so much nicer, and quick racks even better still.

The thing is every time you turn something 90 degrees there's a ball joint..In a rack 2 total at the steering arm..How many in a steering box car? DOZENS!!!!!
And then there's the cheezoid "idler arm"--usually with a ton of slop..
So even same turns its often sloppy in all those 90s.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:32 AM   #17
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I thought about the Miata rack, but the big issue with just about every rack that's even remotely narrow is they are all rear steer which isn't an option on the 140's due to a few critical things.

The Pinto rack wasn't my choice, he grabbed it on one of his yard runs, for test fitting. The 240Z rack seems a little more plausible, narrower, designed for a heavy motor up front, seems like it was a pretty quick setup on the 71 I had many years ago. Still gotta figure out the placement and all that fun stuff though...
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:43 AM   #18
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I thought about the Miata rack, but the big issue with just about every rack that's even remotely narrow is they are all rear steer which isn't an option on the 140's due to a few critical things.

The Pinto rack wasn't my choice, he grabbed it on one of his yard runs, for test fitting. The 240Z rack seems a little more plausible, narrower, designed for a heavy motor up front, seems like it was a pretty quick setup on the 71 I had many years ago. Still gotta figure out the placement and all that fun stuff though...
Keep us posted about the rack fitment. I definitely want to do some sort of electric PS, but I'm certainly not married to the steering box. The cool thing is that I can do the EPAS and still replace the box with a rack later.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:24 PM   #19
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Unless the EPAS has a quickener in it and you decide to throw in a 2.8:1 rack. lol

It's kind of a long-term thing but I'll see how he's doing on it.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:54 PM   #20
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Unless the EPAS has a quickener in it and you decide to throw in a 2.8:1 rack. lol

It's kind of a long-term thing but I'll see how he's doing on it.
Well, yeah. Either I go the expensive EZ Electric Power Steering route with a quickener and then need to find a slow manual rack later, or just use a Saturn EPAS and deal with slow assisted steering until a suitable quick rack conversion presents itself.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:00 PM   #21
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I sort of mocked up (held in there basically) a Saturn electric thing when I had the engine out of my 140 and it just didn’t seem reasonable in the engine bay. I hope to one day hide it under the dash of the 122 and just keep the steering box. Mine’s pretty nice and never really bothered me.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:25 PM   #22
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I sort of mocked up (held in there basically) a Saturn electric thing when I had the engine out of my 140 and it just didn’t seem reasonable in the engine bay. I hope to one day hide it under the dash of the 122 and just keep the steering box. Mine’s pretty nice and never really bothered me.
Yeah, this would certainly go under the dash. I'm pretty set on going this route, now I just need to decide if I want to pay a million dollars for a bolt-in kit with a 1.5:1 quickener, or pay a few hundred dollars for a more DIY thing, then deal with the quickening part later.
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