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Old 07-27-2015, 09:22 PM   #51
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I put some ice on the fuel rail, threw in a spare fuel pump relay I have (don't think that's the problem, I heard the pump running when it sputtered and stalled), and propped a bag of ice up against the fuel tank. The rail was very hot, pump was warm, and tank was pretty warm.

Is it possible that a fuel injected car can vapor lock? I'm sure high altitudes don't help.

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Old 07-27-2015, 10:08 PM   #52
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Vapor lock is exactly what it is.

The main pump's ground is under the rear seat inside. Wagon or sedan.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:13 PM   #53
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Damn, I replaced a fuel pump in the middle of Yellowstone National Park for nothing. I let it cool off and we're still headed to Denver.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:23 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by 93Volvo240 View Post
Damn, I replaced a fuel pump in the middle of Yellowstone National Park for nothing. I let it cool off and we're still headed to Denver.
Denver was where my daughter first noticed the symptoms. Maybe when you get below 5000 ft.? Travel at night? By the way, after looking at a lot of dead tank pumps, I'm happy to use the Airtex E8778 and it is stocked by just about everyone. Got almost 6 years on the first one I put in. As the others die, our fleet is slowly becoming a long term test bed for this particular Airtex product despite the bad rep they have for main pumps.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:58 PM   #55
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Thanks for that info! It just stalled again.. But it's nighttime and cooler than it was earlier so I hope vapor lock is still the issue..

When it first stalled earlier today there was a HUUGE woosh of air when I took off the gas cap. Just now it was smaller but still very loud. Upon releasing the gas I noticed that the tank fill area was very warm. Probably around 100F. Is the gas getting too warm?

Edit: infrared thermometer says the fill hole is about 105F.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by 93Volvo240 View Post
there was a HUUGE woosh of air when I took off the gas cap.
Could you tell if the air was going into the tank or out of it? (yeah, it's pretty much impossible to tell) If your vent system is not working right and lowered the pressure in the tank, your problem would be aggravated.



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Airtex E8778
Art, is that the standard N/A 240 pump? Do they make an equivalent of the high-volume 740 turbo pump?
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:13 PM   #57
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I haven't experienced 240 vapor lock so take this as pure speculation.

Was the whoosh in or out? Did it stink of gas (out)? I'd think that there would be only a small pressure difference either way. Maybe try running with a loosened gas cap?

If you need home garage space and some tools in Boulder CO, please PM me.

Good Luck,
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:18 PM   #58
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I want to say that the big whoosh came out towards me, but I'm not certain. Thank you for the offer.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:23 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Tuttle View Post
Could you tell if the air was going into the tank or out of it? (yeah, it's pretty much impossible to tell) If your vent system is not working right and lowered the pressure in the tank, your problem would be aggravated.
Good call. I had not heard that symptom discussed before, but it certainly makes sense anything reducing the already low atmospheric pressure will make it easier to vaporize the fuel in the lines.


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Originally Posted by Harry Tuttle View Post
Art, is that the standard N/A 240 pump? Do they make an equivalent of the high-volume 740 turbo pump?
Beats me about 740 turbos. This E8778 is identical in size and shape to the AC/Delco which Volvo supplied in the N/A 240s. No cutting, trimming, modifying needed. They seem to be a bit loud at first, which could be new brushes wearing in, the sock filter ferrule contacting the tank bottom, or just my imagination. I don't mind it, and rather like to hear that it is working.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:23 PM   #60
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Here's another simple idea - after releasing the gas cap pressure/vacuum, could you restart the engine and run normally?
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:32 PM   #61
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Here's another simple idea - after releasing the gas cap pressure/vacuum, could you restart the engine and run normally?
It would start and idle for a few seconds then stutter and stall even with the cap loosened. Time to get some Buffalo Wild Wings while it cools down. I think the idea of me putting ice on the gas tank really helped.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:09 AM   #62
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Test the ect if possible
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:21 AM   #63
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:27 AM   #64
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You could just fix the pumps?
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:35 AM   #65
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You could just fix the pumps?
maybe he's trying to get his gf to break up with him, so that later he can say what a bitch she was leaving him in yellowstone wile she took the bus home.

well plaid, well plaid.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:39 AM   #66
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Test the ect if possible
Brand new Bosch unit from IPd...no way of testing right now.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:39 AM   #67
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Your intank is dead and this will keep happening until you un-dead-ify it. This may not be replacing the pump. It could be wiring, it could be crustiness in the pick up tubing.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:41 AM   #68
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You could just fix the pumps?
A little far from home, and I just did replace the main pump.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:42 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by amerbritcan View Post
Your intank is dead and this will keep happening until you un-dead-ify it. This may not be replacing the pump. It could be wiring, it could be crustiness in the pick up tubing.
I will replace it or fix the wiring when I get the chance. That will be when I get home. If it keeps dying it will be towed.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:46 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by cleanflametrap View Post
Vapor lock is exactly what it is.

The main pump's ground is under the rear seat inside. Wagon or sedan.
What about the in tank pump?
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:00 AM   #71
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The in-tank pump ground wire (brown it looks like) is shown in the very last picture at: http://cleanflametrap.com/transferPump.htm
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:03 AM   #72
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Ground screw seemed free if corrosion, however the wire and it's sheathing were bent and pushed against the car. I don't know if the wire split or anything So I'll need to connect 12v directly to it to see if it kicks on.
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:28 AM   #73
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Here's some of my crazy reasons as to what I think is happening.

-Main pump being the only pump, it's getting too hot and vaporizing the fuel after awhile.
-High altitude equates to a lower evaporative point of gasoline
-Fuel rail gets heat soaked after a while and vaporizes fuel
-Something different about the fuels up here? Anything to do with the amount of ethanol?

I'm wondering if there's anything I can add to the fuel to make it not vaporize until I get the chance to replace the pump.
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Old 07-28-2015, 04:46 AM   #74
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I thought that vapor lock went away with carburetors.
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:29 AM   #75
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I thought that vapor lock went away with carburetors.
The reason you thought that is because enough pressure is created by working fuel pumps in fuel injected cars. It is maintained by a check valve when you shut the car off hot. But without the working fuel pump in the tank, the warm fuel boils again.

This odyssey would have a happy resolution if only OP could get to an auto parts store and find a way to loosen and replace the locking ring on the tank sender.
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