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S/V/C V70 Headache

2

240s rock

New member
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Anyone willing to guess at this?

98 V70 fires right up on coldest morning start (-9F), and while hot, then runs fine.

If left off for 10 plus minutes, just cranks and cranks and finally gets going after squirting a bit of fuel with throttle. Then smells like flooded.

Codes read random misfire, and shop says it's the coil. I put new plugs in it and nothing (didn't expect anything).

I think it's fuel related, and hope there isn't a faulty injector or something weird like that. Fuel pump crossed my mind too.

Thanks very much.
 
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Random misfire is normally fuel in my experience. What is the exact code? Non turbo? By fuel do you mean starter fluid?
 
Hello,
Thanks for taking the time. I apologize for the ****ty info.

Turbo. AWD

Don't know the # for the codes, but random misfire was the translation, twice.

As I mentioned, runs strong and no -misfire once up and running.

Fires on 2nd turn when dead cold, fires on 1st turn when hot, as in on/off, on/off. Get it to operating temp and then turn off for 15 minutes, it will then take multiple cranks with no ignition. At this point, give it some gas pedal, and it will choke and sputter (flooded?), but then catch and smell of fuel.

Thanks for your help.
 
Too rich can be caused by lots of different things. My advice is to take it to your closest advanced auto or similar, that way you can get an actual code. Without that you are going to be taking a shot in the dark, and sensors you don't need can get expensive quick.

Something that is starter level without any info is cleaning your maf. For a couple bucks and a screw drive you can't go wrong.
 
Do you lose power under heavy load? If so it could be a plugged up fuel filter, but that doesn't help with the hot start issue.
 
hikerguy said:
Do you lose power under heavy load? If so it could be a plugged up fuel filter, but that doesn't help with the hot start issue.
Click to expand...

Pulls strong uphill and on interstate.

I wonder if an injector (or 2?) is leaking down once car is off, and flooding the combustion chamber. Given enough time (overnight), the fuel could evap and not be as much of a problem, but 10 -15 minutes or even up to 3 or 4 hours into it, it seems flooded. I know that seems farfetched, and indicative of how little I know about V70s (cars in general really).

I wondered about the Engine Coolant Temperature sensor? The problem certainly seems temp related.

I already had it at Advanced Auto, and had them read the codes, along with a different mechanic. They all are talking about spark, so I went ahead and changed the plugs (no better), but that didn't make any sense to me then or now.

Maybe it is. Maybe a bad ground or something.

Thanks for thinking about it.
 
A leaky injector can probably be ruled out, 1 out of 5 shouldn't flood an engine.

Coolant temp sensor would more likely be the culprit. The theory is that, the engine needs more fuel to run while cold. As the engine heats up, there is more thermal energy stored in the engine, there for less fuel is needed to move the pistons.

I'm not sure how the ecm reads the mass air flow sensor on start up in a turbo engine, so I can't say. I do know that 80% of maf sensors are changed when they simply need cleaned. If you average 100cfm over 3000 miles at the average commute speed of 32 mph thats nearly 10000 cubic feet of road grim air. And that's just in one oil change.

Sorry for that lol
 
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Well, it wouldn't start at all yesterday afternoon, so got flat bedded to the shop. Now I'm worried that all of that rough cranking by the bloke who had it before me, and then the couple of weeks of ragged cranking on frigid mornings by me has done some damage. The starter wasn't sounding too happy yesterday, and a slapping motor at negative temps is never good. Oh well, this is only the winter beater anyway. Only a couple more months until I'm back into one of my 240s.
Thanks for your help. I'll keep you posted.
 
Honestly, a resistance check on the coolant temp sensor is a good place to start. Also try a different cam sensor. They are used for injector sequencing on startup and can lead to issues starting but it will run fine afterwards. They won't always throw a code when they go either.
 
I would start with the fuel pump relay or coolant temperature sensor. When I had a bad CLT sensor, my 850 was very hard starting, but only at cold temperatures. I could imagine a similar failure that only occurred at warm temperatures. My Autel md802 scanner showed no codes for the sensor failure.

My two MAF failures both resulted in the car only ever starting on the second attempt. In one case I did have a stored code for the bad MAF but no CEL.

What's the general condition of the rotor, cap and wires?
 
ovlov760 said:
I would start with the fuel pump relay or coolant temperature sensor. When I had a bad CLT sensor, my 850 was very hard starting, but only at cold temperatures. I could imagine a similar failure that only occurred at warm temperatures. My Autel md802 scanner showed no codes for the sensor failure.

My two MAF failures both resulted in the car only ever starting on the second attempt. In one case I did have a stored code for the bad MAF but no CEL.

What's the general condition of the rotor, cap and wires?
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That's where a datastream does wonders. I've used the datastream on Torque to find some of those failed sensors. ECT reading -40, MAF showing 0-1gm/sec at idle instead of 4-4.5, etc.
 
hikerguy said:
A leaky injector can probably be ruled out, 1 out of 5 shouldn't flood an engine.

Coolant temp sensor would more likely be the culprit. The theory is that, the engine needs more fuel to run while cold. As the engine heats up, there is more thermal energy stored in the engine, there for less fuel is needed to move the pistons.

I'm not sure how the ecm reads the mass air flow sensor on start up in a turbo engine, so I can't say. I do know that 80% of maf sensors are changed when they simply need cleaned. If you average 100cfm over 3000 miles at the average commute speed of 32 mph thats nearly 10000 cubic feet of road grim air. And that's just in one oil change.

Sorry for that lol
Click to expand...

In my experience bad MAF sensors cause stalling issues in the 850/70 cars, not starting issues. They have huge air filters considering the displacement of the engine, so there shouldn't be any issues with dirt assuming the OP is still running the stock air filter housing.

Given the symptoms, I'll add to the chorus suggesting that the coolant temp sensor is to blame. How did the old spark plugs look?
 
kampman said:
In my experience bad MAF sensors cause stalling issues in the 850/70 cars, not starting issues. They have huge air filters considering the displacement of the engine, so there shouldn't be any issues with dirt assuming the OP is still running the stock air filter housing.

Given the symptoms, I'll add to the chorus suggesting that the coolant temp sensor is to blame. How did the old spark plugs look?
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I've experienced both hard starting and stalling from a bad MAF in my 850's. Sometimes it's hard to remember that the sensors and MAF on lot of these cars could be 17+ years old.
 
Thanks for the help everyone.
When I changed the plugs, #2 spark plug was wet, and that cylinder smelled strongly of fuel (car hadn't been run in 2-3 days), which had me fantasizing about injectors leaking after the car was shut down (wrong). Coil looks fresh; wires look old. Cap is aftermarket, but who knows from when?
As suggested, most likely the ECT sensor is shot, and/or MAF sensor is dirty. I still don't believe it's a bad coil, but maybe. I'd like to diagnose this further myself, but my garage is full right now (I know, bad idea), and it's @#$%^! winter out , so maybe I should just let the shop get to the bottom of it.
I'll keep you all posted.
Cheers
 
If it's like the 850 you can swap out that sensor in 20 to 30 min. You'll need to remove the thermostat housings top so best to get a new thermostat and gasket while you're at it. You'll lose some coolant as well. Access sucks and getting a wrench on that sensor is the hardest part of the job. It's not a hard job though. No harder than changing your oil imho.
 
I have had this very similar situation happen with me and it turned out to be my injector wires themselves were grounding out. If it sat awhile it would start right up and drive fun. But if i shut it off and tried to start it back up within the next 20 minutes it was flooded. I had to go thru and seperate my injector wires and re wrap them and problem was gone.
 
Hi LostCause,

Thanks for responding.

Was it an 850 or V70 that showed those symptoms?

I stopped by the shop today and the car kicked right over; after their expensive diagnostic tool couldn't tell us anything more than #2 misfire and random misfire, I decided to take it home and try to unravel this myself (Once the hell blizzard has passed of course).

Cheers





LostCause1979 said:
I have had this very similar situation happen with me and it turned out to be my injector wires themselves were grounding out. If it sat awhile it would start right up and drive fun. But if i shut it off and tried to start it back up within the next 20 minutes it was flooded. I had to go thru and seperate my injector wires and re wrap them and problem was gone.
Click to expand...
 
Mine was actually a 740 turbo but have heard it happening to other models..



240s rock said:
Hi LostCause,

Thanks for responding.

Was it an 850 or V70 that showed those symptoms?

I stopped by the shop today and the car kicked right over; after their expensive diagnostic tool couldn't tell us anything more than #2 misfire and random misfire, I decided to take it home and try to unravel this myself (Once the hell blizzard has passed of course).

Cheers
Click to expand...
 
240s rock said:
Anyone willing to guess at this?

98 V70 fires right up on coldest morning start (-9F), and while hot, then runs fine.

If left off for 10 plus minutes, just cranks and cranks and finally gets going after squirting a bit of fuel with throttle. Then smells like flooded.

Codes read random misfire, and shop says it's the coil. I put new plugs in it and nothing (didn't expect anything).

I think it's fuel related, and hope there isn't a faulty injector or something weird like that. Fuel pump crossed my mind too.

Thanks very much.
Click to expand...

hi,sounds to me you have a leaking fpr.unplug the vacuum line from it and run the engine,you will see fuel drops from fpr.
 
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